quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:


Where do you dial 911 in that encounter?

When you know in advance that the boys are coming to get the girlfriend's things.

Having a police presence would be a wise idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:



Where do you dial 911 in that encounter?

As soon as practical.
The guy goes down and they (his family members) took him to the hospital by car, according to the OP.

So right then, the second they leave.
You don’t sit on your hands and wait until the hospital calls 911.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:


Where do you dial 911 in that encounter?

When you know in advance that the boys are coming to get the girlfriend's things.

Having a police presence would be a wise idea.

Yep. I rarely find that I disagree with JlJones, but having police baby sit a breakup move-out where one party is bringing friends and family to help in the move is absolutely worth it. I went through a similar situation where I told the whore to get her shit and get out and she brought her friends to help her get her shit. Four women in a tiny apartment with three rooms including the bathroom and one of them actually tried starting some shit with me. They wanted me to leave while they helped her move and I was not about to have my shit stolen, and knowing that this was all coming, I had already driven all my guns to a friend to look after them until things cooled off. I was worried she'd say I threatened her. Honestly should have had the local PD there, because I disarmed myself to deal with a situation I knew was volatile. At one point in the day, she showed up with the new guy she was fucking to collect the 500lb cabinet TV her mother insisted we have. That got saucy enough that I called some family to vent, and they got in the car and headed over. I mentioned that to the bitch one point when she got in my face, and her entire tone and demeanor changed and she didn't come back for the rest of her shit.

Sometimes, you just need the po-po there to babysit situations like this. Because someone just might get too mouthy and get shot.

I think if a Officer would baby sit a cituation like this, you'd be darn lucky. I would have said no in the first place to her troubled family members coming into my dwelling. Perhaps they could have collected her things in the hall way. Maybe the whole incident could have been handled better ? Dont have a single issue with knife boy collecting some defensive rounds though.

My mom was one of the first female officers in the El Paso PD back in the early 70’s. She did a lot of these babysits and was the one who strongly suggest I get the locals to do the same in that situation. She was also the one who rounded up family to come over and look to stomp a whore’s ass, so there’s that.

People that know better tend to let logic go out the window in these situations.

There is never any justification for shooting someone because they "get mouthy."

When the testosterone swills and the chest puffs out, and we go from a simple description to bitch-this and shit-that, the sympathy level drops. This isn't a defensive situation. This is pride, ego, and testosterone.

It's perfectly acceptable to notify the other party that your'e willing to allow them to move their things with help with police presence, witnesses, etc.

I'd check the notion of "shooting bitches" and killing people because they're "mouthy" and focus on maintaining a peaceful exchange. The whole "bitch" thing can come back to bite you with a vengence when court is in session. Always ask how what you're doing or saying will look in court to those who do not share your passion, temper, history, anger, or pride.

You can sink your boat before you every leave the harbor with a few misplaced actions or words. I get the frustration; many of us have been there, some more than once, and much as we all like to feel that our situation is somehow unique, different, it's not.

If there's knowledge that another party will be coming into your residence to remove items and you have concern about those people or what is removed, it's time to set up the event in advance, while cooler heads can prevail, and arrange to have others present to prevent the situation escalating.

The situation as given in the original post sounds like a nightmare for all parties, especially in the coming litigation. Whether the shooter gets arraigned and tried or not, he can count on a civil suit and what's coming will be far more than he ever bargained for when he fired those shots. The real nightmare has not yet begun.

Hey, that was a very long time ago and I would do about exactly none of it the same way, knowing what I know now. I wouldn’t have shot anyone for what happened that day, but the OP’s friend sure did. That was my point.

If you interpreted anything I said to, in any way, condone shooting someone for "getting mouthy," then I have miscommunicated and need to go back and do some editing. I never would, never could condone such an act. My point was that I was in such a situation and really could have benefited from having an LEO presence there as a third party. No sympathy needed or asked for.

This may cost him $20-25k for his defense regardless of how well connected and experienced his attorney is..

sig-bandit, if she's moving out, she's your friend's ex-GF, not GF. I didn't get the impression she is starting a new job in a new city and he's following 2 months later when his current assignment ends. Were they on a lease together? If so, is your friend the only person to decide who gets to be in the apartment?

Sounds like your friend is pissed that she is leaving. Sounds like he didn't offer to help her move, or at least bring her items outside to a waiting vehicle. So instead she calls in help and your friend doesn't allow them to help, or at least not the brother.

Your friend made a series of poor decisions here. How much better to take his 7 year old kid sister for ice cream while the ex moves out? Take a few small high-value things with him, take pictures or a video of the rest. Wish her the best, come back a few hours later when she has her stuff out.

I don't know the specifics of the use of force, but not calling 911 afterwards is a huge mistake.

i have not read through all the posts so take fwiw. But if it is not provable there was a knife. His word vs theirs. It is just his word. And he did not call LE to report the shooting right afterword. Probably other's issues that are not in his favor. He is in trouble is my guess.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Besides, as stated in the OP, the shooter has saved text messages showing threats from the ex-GF's family. He has text messages, therefore he most likely has a cell phone.

In thia day and age, if you don't call 911 after a situation like this and "I couldn't find a pay phone" is your reason, you're either mentally challenged or you're lying about why you didn't call.

(Seriously... Pay phone?)

His sister was there. The odds she doesn’t have a phone attached to her hand is nonexistent.

3 pages in this thread and everyone is still Stuck on the fact that he didn’t call the cops himself.. this thread is like ground hogs day.

No, not everyone.

Whether he called the police himself isn't that important. It's what he did to put himself in this position in the first place that matters.

Testosterone and pride isn't a defense, and the time to call police wasn't after the shooting, but before.

Prevention. He didn't appear to do anything to prevent it in the first place. The phrase "tough guy" keeps coming up in his description, but that appears to actually mean "impulsive," "reckless," "immature," "irresponsible," "hot headed," and even "dangerous." More than anything else, it appears that it really means "looking for a fight," and in the context of his outcome, manslaughter to murder for a situation that at best could have been avoided, and at worst appears to have been egged on or set up.

"Bring it" is not a valid defense.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
No, not everyone.

Whether he called the police himself isn't that important. It's what he did to put himself in this position in the first place that matters.

Testosterone and pride isn't a defense, and the time to call police wasn't after the shooting, but before.

Prevention. He didn't appear to do anything to prevent it in the first place. The phrase "tough guy" keeps coming up in his description, but that appears to actually mean "impulsive," "reckless," "immature," "irresponsible," "hot headed," and even "dangerous." More than anything else, it appears that it really means "looking for a fight," and in the context of his outcome, manslaughter to murder for a situation that at best could have been avoided, and at worst appears to have been egged on or set up.

"Bring it" is not a valid defense.

Nailed it.

Where's the (beef) knife? That's not good for the friend if they don't come up with that or the guy doesn't testify to the truth.
Not good at all anyway.

Maybe I failed to read for content. How long did it take events to unfold? What I mean is, it's his place, did he ask the guy to leave immediately upon seeing him?

If he did and the guy drew a knife on him immediately, ok. If he asked him to leave and was not immediately pressed by a physical attack, why didn't he call LE and let them escort the brother out without incident?

If I were on a jury I'd look hard at whether you had an opportunity to follow the law. If you didn't, we'd all be on our way home shortly after deliberations began. If you were afforded an out but chose to go all Charles Bronson on them? You'd be toast.

So far we've only heard one side of the story and It's the one that is most favorable to the shooter. Not good. Maybe his sister who was there as a witness will be more helpful, who knows.

The other side will be told by the now ex-girlfriend, her father and the recovering "victim" or whatever he was.

Then there will be the responding police officers and maybe a detective/investigator.

Based on what little reliable info we have, I don't see the lawyer saying this is a slam dunk for the shooter, who is already a defendant from the sound of things.

Hope your friend has some money - but if he's living in an apartment with the crazy chick, somehow I doubt it.

quote:

I think if a Officer would baby sit a situation like this, you'd be darn lucky.

We did it all the time.

quote:

This may cost him $20-25k for his defense regardless of how well connected and experienced his attorney is..

That's just for starters. It's going to go well beyond that number.

quote:

Originally posted by sig-bandit:
Of course just because they are LE doesn't mean they are gun guys either.

What does that have to do with anything? Dozens of "gun guys" on this forum that know less about this than the officers have pointed out your friend's poor predicament due to lack of overall judgement on the move out, lack of 911 call, and lack of exonerating evidence (knife or video).