quote:

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Where's the option of just ignoring the whole thing?

Haha...you so much me remind me of my first Senior Chief almost 30 years ago...”No Ensign, I didn’t ask you to tell me how do you THINK the HPAC works, instead tell me how DOES the HPAC work!” Sadly, MMCS (SW) Jerry Hudson left us and our navy too soon...

KP93 posted the remark above in frayedends' topic on HR/Corporate games. I didn't want to derail that thread, hence this one.

It occurred to me that (at least in the Navy) there are two major promotion hurdles:

E1-E6 is strictly on a pass the test and points system. Do your job, get decent evals and you're in.

E6 to E7. You need to have a record of going above and beyond just doing your job. Volunteerism, taking on collateral duties like Division Career Counselor...things of that nature. E7 is points, plus test, plus a Selection Board.

E8 is also a Selection Board. The trick here is Get Shit Done. You still need to take on a few collateral duties but if you have good evals and a track record of accomplishment, you'll pick up that first star eventually.

E8 to E9 is where the story changes. You need all of the above, PLUS a demonstrated ability to play politics. E9 is less about running a shop and getting shit done and more about promoting Navy policy, attending all the right functions, being seen, getting known and generally being a Go Navy Cheerleader.

One of a couple of reasons I bailed at 22 years was that I knew there was no way on the planet I was ever going to get that second star. I'm a Get Shit Done guy and if I step on a few toes and hurt someone's widdle feels getting it done, well...tough shit. I don't do politics, I never was a "The Navy is my life, whatever will I do when they force me to retire" kind of guy. It was a job. Mostly fun, always interesting and I'm glad I did it, but when it comes right down to it, it was just a job.

Be interested in hearing other Senior Enlisted folks views and opinions on my thoughts.

Perfect summation on the way the ladder really works

PH - all you did is make it to Rear Admiral L?

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
PH - all you did is make to Rear Admiral L?

For those that may not know, the insignia for Navy (and CG) Chief Petty Officers are as shown above. The star(s) above the chevrons are referred to (at least in the Navy) as "screws" as in boat propellors, so I was a "Single Screw Chief".

I bailed at 22 myself, but never got that first star. I made some family decisions as a Chief and chose duty stations that were not exactly promotion-enhancing, but would serve me well after retirement (and did). So I'm just fine with how it all ended up. For those that are not familiar with Navy promotions, it is a quota-driven system and highly variable year-to-year depending on your career field.

I was always a "get shit done" guy, and it was fun and rewarding. The wheels came off at my last command when another Chief was promoted over me that had no interest in the technical aspect of our job, or training our Sailors. It was all about Navy League, combined federal campaign, blood drives, etc. You get the picture. This individual also did not deploy, whereas I was gone quite a bit. So that helped my decision. I left on my own terms instead of being forced to retire.

The Navy is a far different one than when I joined in the 80's. I'm not sure I would want to be back in uniform these days.

quote:

Originally posted by wxdave:
I bailed at 22 myself, but never got that first star. I made some family decisions as a Chief and chose duty stations that were not exactly promotion-enhancing, but would serve me well after retirement (and did). So I'm just fine with how it all ended up. For those that are not familiar with Navy promotions, it is a quota-driven system and highly variable year-to-year depending on your career field.

I was always a "get shit done" guy, and it was fun and rewarding. The wheels came off at my last command when another Chief was promoted over me that had no interest in the technical aspect of our job, or training our Sailors. It was all about Navy League, combined federal campaign, blood drives, etc. You get the picture. This individual also did not deploy, whereas I was gone quite a bit. So that helped my decision. I left on my own terms instead of being forced to retire.

The Navy is a far different one than when I joined in the 80's. I'm not sure I would want to be back in uniform these days.

Exactamundo.

I made those decisions myself. 5 years at Pensacola, Florida - 1 as a student, 3 as an instructor, 1 year extension as a Course Manager. Followed that with orders to yet ANOTHER shore duty station at MOTU-10 (Mobile Technical Unit - Fleet Troubleshooters) in Charleston. Bad Juju for promotion. MOTU especially, I was a Chief and I was supposed to be running a shop, not turning screwdrivers.

I knew all that and took the orders for family reasons. After the back-to-back CONUS shore duty tours, I knew my number was up and volunteered for the Asshole of the Artic - AKA Keflavik, Iceland.

That tour, and what I accomplished while stationed there is what put that star over my rocker.

Edit to add: I retired in 1990. I went back to work with the Navy as a civilian contractor (via Lockheed-Martin) in 2010. I was appalled at what "my Navy" had become. PC out the ass.

Similar in officer land. Up through O5 is pretty straight-forward. O6 and of course especially that 1st and subsequent stars is very political.

Politics is why shitty people are promoted in the military. It's even worse for officer promotions.

Army is really bad. So many politicians in uniform. They brief well, their numbers are there but they're not real leaders. They have the title.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Politics is why shitty people are promoted in the military. It's even worse for officer promotions.

Army is really bad. So many politicians in uniform. They brief well, their numbers are there but they're not real leaders. They have the title.

funny thing is -- every now and then you meet the 'real deal' Army Leader.

Fit. Smart. Charismatic. Personable. Selfless. Dedicated.

and you realize -- with a few guys like that your unit could conquer the world.

only so much of that is 'trainable'. a lot of it is 'natural gift'.

but it was fun to experience.

--------------------------------

I called it quits at 25 as a Senior Chief. I enjoied my time in but I knew it was time to go when the command ranked a new check in Senior Chief #1 even though he hadn't deployed or even have any quals (QA, Safe for flight....) all because he had just left pushing boots and the CO wanted to make someone/anyone a E9.

I still work on base so I see some of how todays Navy is run, and there's no way I'd survive. You can't do or say anything that might offend someone.

quote:

Originally posted by navyshooter:
I still work on base so I see some of how todays Navy is run, and there's no way I'd survive. You can't do or say anything that might offend someone.

Exactly. I got in trouble as a civilian contractor for speaking frankly to one of the active duty guys that was violating firearms safety protocols.

I'd last about 10 minutes in today's military.

"Because in the great poker game of life, anchors beat crows, THAT'S why, now get it done, Petty Officer Schmuckatelli!"

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Politics is why shitty people are promoted in the military. It's even worse for officer promotions.

Army is really bad. So many politicians in uniform. They brief well, their numbers are there but they're not real leaders. They have the title.

I got to see it in the 1990s. Those kick ass officers who's guys would follow them into the jaws of hell got washed out for not being PC, for being innovative, and for pushing the boundaries of what it meant to be a hard charging company grade officer. They were universally put out. The fucking timekeepers, nonentities, and tit-sucking children who could run, pass airborne school (not lead, pass the school) and sing cadence on the colonel's run got the jobs.

I love the Army, and fuck the Army, in the same sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

quote:

Originally posted by navyshooter:
I still work on base so I see some of how todays Navy is run, and there's no way I'd survive. You can't do or say anything that might offend someone.

Exactly. I got in trouble as a civilian contractor for speaking frankly to one of the active duty guys that was violating firearms safety protocols.

I'd last about 10 minutes in today's military.

"Because in the great poker game of life, anchors beat crows, THAT'S why, now get it done, Petty Officer Schmuckatelli!"

or " I can't make you do anything, but I sure can make you wish you had" or in plain english "Never fuck with the guy that controls your liberty"

quote:

Originally posted by navyshooter:

or " I can't make you do anything, but I sure can make you wish you had" or in plain english "Never fuck with the guy that controls your liberty"

Hah! One reason I got where I did in the Navy was a Chief that told me that when I was a career (6 years...) Third Class. I told him I wasn't going to take the E5 exam because A)It was a waste of time, and B)I was getting out in 6 months anyway.

Then I got married...

I've wondered how the Chief's I had as a young E1 would handle todays Navy.......I'm guessing there would be dead bodies everywhere.

Go read the thread on Army grooming standards. Pay attention to the quotes from the Sergeant Major of the Army. Oh yea, you have to be at least a bit political when you hit the top. Lol

I got out as a terminal O3. My friends are now pinning on their second and third stars as well. It’s interesting to see who made the grade and who didn’t.

quote:

Originally posted by navyshooter:
I've wondered how the Chief's I had as a young E1 would handle todays Navy.......I'm guessing there would be dead bodies everywhere.

So yer saying you don't think Mount 51 counseling would go over well?

Entered US Army in August 1968. Even that far back can remember the talk of the "Real Brown Boot Army" changes. Promoted to E-6 in just short of 3 years mainly due to MOS of 00F40 (Drill Sgt.). The decision to get out and become a civilian was triggered in 1977 when I had more than enough time in grade as a E-6 for promotion to E-7 but still needed at least 5 more years time in service to be eligible for promotion. I am sure that in todays "new thinking pc leadership" that I could not survive. ...... drill sgt.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:

quote:

Originally posted by navyshooter:
I've wondered how the Chief's I had as a young E1 would handle todays Navy.......I'm guessing there would be dead bodies everywhere.

So yer saying you don't think Mount 51 counseling would go over well?

Quite so.
I had one Senior Chief that was part of the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam and another that was in a Helicopter Attack (Light) Squadron during Tet. I went to his retirement and they read an award he got as a PO3 for manning a machinegun defending the fence line during the attack. Sailors today would have quite the awakening if they encountered men such as those two.

The promotion system for the Army is just as screwed up as in years past.

I am glad that I am serving because I want to and to deploy as much as possible.

It was amazing the people I saw promoted in my unit when I returned from AFG.

You cannot tell me that some of these individuals who were crap birds for five years running all of a sudden become iron men in the seven months I was gone.

With deployments winding down and the wars coming to a close (supposedly) the Army has decided that deployment time does not count towards promotion. This was not to offend or hurt the feelings of those individuals who would not deploy. (I know there were some who couldn't or never got picked up for deployment even after trying for years).

It's still not who you know or what you know, its what box you check.

Edit::
I just read that the Army has already started changing small items such as:

The term combat patch has now been replaced with "Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Military Operations in Hostile Conditions." Its less offensive and mean sounding.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mrapteam666,