I made Chief Petty Officer (E-7) in just over eight years in the Navy. I was up for Senior Chief in twelve years.

I spent nine years on sea duty including tours in Viet Nam.

I had been on instructor duty at Coronado for three years. I spent a lot of time out on San Clemente Island as an instructor.

My new assignment was to be five years on an aircraft carrier. My wife and I had problems and blamed it on my being gone much of the time.

I got out of the Navy and went to work for a government agency. I also joined the Army National Guard.

I was home most of the time. My wife and I discovered we just didn't like each other and got divorced. The reason we had stayed together was I was gone all of the time.

The Army National Guard promoted me to Warrant Officer and I retired after ten years in the Guard.

Before the Navy, I'd worked in a machine shop making industrial pumps. Started as a basic machine operator with no machine shop experience and after only five years had worked my way up to a salaried supervisor.

I had a home, boat, motorcycle, truck, car ... and was single with little self discipline after hours.

Got tired of the four walls of a machine shop day after day. Wanted to see the world and felt a nagging responsibility to serve my country.

Joined the Navy at 33 as an "elderly recruit". I knew going in that IF I did stay in, I'd only do 20yrs tops ... and take it one reenlistment at a time.

I saw pretty early on which enlisted pay grades were the "get shit done" guys and which were the politicians. As always, my greatest joy was in fixing stuff when it was broke. A hands on, deck plate sailor. But even at 33 (and still single), I lacked self discipline.

Chief on my first ship would often tell others, I was one of the best technicians he'd ever seen, just don't let him off the ship.

I'd gone to bootcamp as a non-rate airman, got selected as top 10% in the recruit company, discharged as airman, reenlisted as seaman and given DS "A" school at Mare Island. Served as a DS for 10yrs.

When they did away with the DS rate in 1998, I converted to ET. Was an ET for a couple of years before finally converting once again, to FC.

Passed the E7 exam in the DS, ET and FC ratings.

Because of the lack of self dicipline, I had a couple of less than exemplary evals to "outgrow". At my 17yrs in mark, what finally put me over the top was instructor duty and branch LPO at Dam Neck. And that's where I was tested, selected and initiated.

I'd always thought that if I picked up Chief, it would be nice to go out a Senior Chief but that didn't happen.

As I'd promised myself going in, I only did 20 ... so I was a quitter LOL. At 53, it was time to move on. Besides, after 4 ships and over 11yrs at sea, it just wasn't fun any more.

One thing I did learn about myself is I don't like working for someone else. I would not have made a very good enlisted "politician". And since leaving the military in 2006 at the age of 53, I haven't worked for anyone. I could have parlayed my broad experience into several job paths but chose not to pursue those options and have not put in a single job application anywhere. Now at 68 (this year), don't think I ever will. I enjoy piddling around the house and fixing stuff when it's broke, or just making things around me better. Still a hands on guy. I'm okay with that and wouldn't change a thing.

OH ... and I STILL sleep on less than 18" on the edge of a queen size bed LOL ... two dogs have the rest to themselves.


I did add a Navy Comm and a couple of other ribbons/medals as well as a few more quals after picking up Chief. Charge book and cover ...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hobbs,

Thank you all for your service. I was USAF and made it from 2Lt to Captain (O-3) in 4 1/2 years (normal progression) and then stayed an O-3 for 10 1/2 years, failing to be promoted. OERs were the driving force for promotions to O-4 and above and I never got a highest rating and had a couple of not so great ones. Was discharged after 15 years and promptly enlisted as an E-4 Sgt to finish 20 for retirement. Enlisted promotions were based on testing and ability and I was promoted twice during that time period. After just over 20 years total service I was discharged again one day as an E-6 TSgt and retired the next day as a Captain. Enlisting to qualify for retirement was one of the best decisions I'd ever made. (Also was able to enter a field that had been denied me as an officer, and which I then happily worked in for 26 more years as a civilian.)

flashguy

With regard to today’s sailors vs yesterday’s

I had the pleasure of 16 visits to Subic Bay and beautiful downtown Olongapo City. This was even before the streets were paved. A few years after I was discharged in 1970, there was an article in the WSJ, titled “Today’s sailors are “kittens”. You may substitute the appropriate euphemism. The article specially mentioned surviving Olongapo.

Wondering what the author of that article would have to say now?!

On the Active Duty side of the house, I knew I would never make GMC as the 14 billets were filled already with guys who had about ten years left until retirement...and I knew they weren’t getting out. Plus there was only 4 senior chiefs billets as GMs...and those guys still had years until retirement, so when my enlistment came up at 11 years it wasn’t hard to say bye....I got out to be near my kid anyway. But I stayed in the reserves

On the Reserve side of the house,when I made Chief I knew I wouldn’t make Senior Chief as there were literally none in my rating. Well there were, but the rating was two-blocked as the 2 SCs had plenty of time left until retirement, so I bounced at 20. I also was maxed out on points due to my 11 years of active duty...so staying in was only a paycheck and the chance for another deployment...f that noise.....plus I’m a proponent of squashing the PC culture whenever I can and I don’t play well with others...I can get the job done, but I can assure you someone will whine to a JO about it..

quote:

Originally posted by Tn226:
With regard to today’s sailors vs yesterday’s

I had the pleasure of 16 visits to Subic Bay and beautiful downtown Olongapo City. This was even before the streets were paved. A few years after I was discharged in 1970, there was an article in the WSJ, titled “Today’s sailors are “kittens”. You may substitute the appropriate euphemism. The article specially mentioned surviving Olongapo.

Wondering what the author of that article would have to say now?!

He'd probably stroke out.

Coincidentally, I was stationed in the PI in 1970, at Clark Air Base. Angeles City wasn't Olongapo, but it was close. Some of the stuff I saw (and did...) there would get me in deep doo-doo these days. Back then, it was just part of "a night on the town".

Whole different culture then. We had a change of command while I was there, and after the ceremony, the new OIC pulled one of the First Class aside and asked him what bar we'd be in in about 3 hours...he'd meet us there after he did the social circuit. And he did too. Nothing outrageous, just a couple of beers with the guys. Can you imagine that nowadays?

Almost sounds like promotions and the such in law enforcement.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Almost sounds like promotions and the such in law enforcement.

With a few tweaks here and there, I imagine it's the same anywhere. We even had several Poster Children for The Peter Principle.

Hobbs - What's the significance of the bronze, silver, and gold pens in your shadow box?

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Hobbs - What's the significance of the bronze, silver, and gold pens in your shadow box?

Chief, Senior Chief and Master Chief standing before the flag and at attention. Pen use mostly depended on who made an entry into my charge book. When making an entry into my charge book, some used those pens and some chose to use their own regulation Navy issue skillcraft pen a good sailor always has in his left shirt pocket ... and there's one in that pocket on the charge book LOL ... and some used that one to make entries too. There were a couple of hundred in the Chief's Mess at Dam Neck we were tasked to meet each and every one of them. And each Chief had their own (specially) numbered page labeled and in ranking order for making entries. There were 65 of us selectees. We were vastly outnumbered. As with most tasks for those going through Chief's initiation, meeting all the Chiefs was virtually impossible too HA. Some just plain made it quite difficult to meet them while others worked in restricted areas, I may or may not have had access to. I didn't meet all of them, but all of them are listed and have a labeled page (in rank order) in that charge book. We were mostly supposed to meet each Chief in our spare time and in small groups of selectees. No independent steaming. Thing is, during (6wks) initiation, there.is.no.spare.time. Without going into a lot more detail, initiation activities were quite demanding, intense and virtually non-stop. "If we can't make you smart, we'll make you strong" ... and "You'll sleep when you get out of the Navy". Good times.

EDIT: ... and it isn't a shadow box per se. It's an Oak charge book cover we were required to make ourselves. Handle because we had to carry it with us at ALL times and lock so no one (especially lower paygrade enlisted) couldn't look through our charge book, make an unauthorized entry, mutilate or steal it. The Oak cover was one of many team building things for us selectees going through initiation. Working together much like a production line and at a guys house where he had a wood shop ... we got 'er done.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hobbs,

PHPaul, what was your rate? I am coming up on 30 years in the Navy.

Army myself, active duty 1968-1972, reserves until 1977.

E-1 to E-2 in 60 days. E-3 at 5 months. On to Vietnam, airborne infantry. E-4 at 8 months. Sergeant E-5 at 9-1/2 months active duty (but two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star).

Applied for Warrant Officer Flight School, but a persistent inner ear problem ended that. Stuck at E-5 through a second Vietnam tour (and two more Purple Hearts).

Offered promotion to Staff Sergeant E-6 in return for a 6-year re-enlistment, but that would come with a two-year unaccompanied tour in Germany. Left active duty, transferred to active reserve.

My reserve unit was an infantry battalion, authorized strength about 900, with 240 assigned. I was the only one with any active duty other than training. I became the battalion training officer, first lieutenant O-2.

By that time I had two kids in school, working full-time as a city cop. Two evenings and one weekend per month reserve service, plus the annual two-week training cycle, got to be more than a drag (including the other cops I worked with who had to pick up the slack). Left active reserve, went inactive status.

Two years later I receive "the big manila envelope" from my reserve control group. I just about soiled my shorts.

Turns out that my reserve battalion training plan had been selected as the basis for use in all active reserve units. Congratulations from all the brass hats and a promotion to Captain O-3 USAR.

Haven't heard a word from them in over 40 years. Maybe I should check, see if I'm a general by now. Seems like they kept promoting me even when I wasn't there or doing anything.

I retired from the guard as an old ass E5 because I had a 14 year break in service, and made trying to get deployed a priority over getting promoted. Anyway this is how the enlisted side does it in big green.

E1 through E6 is all time in service, time in grade. You can get a waver for each one, but only once for each one. E1 through E4 is actually not a promotion, it's an administrative advancement and it can be taken away any time your unit commander thinks you aren't performing up to standard.

E5 is the first rank you board for. That and E6 are time, schools, points, and recomendation. You compete within your zone in terms of geoorgraphy. In the guard you compete in statewide zones, so if you're in a small state a promotion may only move you a hour away from your current assignment. For active duty it can move you coast to coast if necessary.

E7 is a global board, and it's heavily weighted combat arms and within that the infantry branch. Most career NCO's retire at E6 becuse their career fields are so amall there are only a handful of E7 E8 E9 slots.

E8 and E9 are all the above, plus some serious schooling and a fairly tough selection board. In my entire time in the service, I only worked for one 1st Sgt (E8) who was relieved for cause. E9 is Command Sgt Major\Sgt Major. The school itelf is 6 months long, and they don't send you until you've been selected for promotion. I have a friend who graduated the SMA academy, and he's doing at least a year more 1 SGT duty on top of the four years he already did in ordet to get promoted.

Edited because I can't spell.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,

The new promotion system (Army) seems to be aimed at reduction in promotions and a downsizing of the force.

By limiting the number of top blocks that can be issued, but then mandating a string of top blocks for promotion supposedly to identify and promote the best. The Army completely disregard the fact that most individuals in a given personnel pool are in fact average by definition. Plus, lets say you give an NCO a top block as they PCS out, but their replacement is an even better one. Unless you have a large enough rating pool, they are getting a highly qualified vs the requisite most qualified.

However, one does have to consider that the military is very much a pyramid scheme. As mentioned above there are fewer and fewer billets at the higher ranks.

My rate has a pretty good path to E6. Though last cycle advancement rate was 9%.

The Navy as a whole is a joke, 50% of it is based off luck of the draw WRT to when you join versus the eval cycles. Fall into a few NOB's and you're 2 years behind someone who arrived on command a few weeks prior with no differences. I have first hand examples of how one Chief's decision to reinstate a rule at A-school prevented me from advancing 3 cycles sooner.

I'm not mad at the way its done but I also can't be bothered to care about it either. Those least qualified to evaluate me are the ones with the most say in the matter.

It's quite silly, everyone knows it but no one really cares. I'm not high enough rank yet to know how it works at E7 or higher but I'm sure on my way to Warrant I'll learn it's just as f'd as I'm imagining.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
My rate has a pretty good path to E6. Though last cycle advancement rate was 9%.

The Navy as a whole is a joke, 50% of it is based off luck of the draw WRT to when you join versus the eval cycles. Fall into a few NOB's and you're 2 years behind someone who arrived on command a few weeks prior with no differences. I have first hand examples of how one Chief's decision to reinstate a rule at A-school prevented me from advancing 3 cycles sooner.

I'm not mad at the way its done but I also can't be bothered to care about it either. Those least qualified to evaluate me are the ones with the most say in the matter.

It's quite silly, everyone knows it but no one really cares. I'm not high enough rank yet to know how it works at E7 or higher but I'm sure on my way to Warrant I'll learn it's just as f'd as I'm imagining.

Highly doubt you'll pick up Warrant unless you're a Chief for at least a couple of years first ... unless you cross over to the Army as an E-5 and learn to fly helicopters ... if they even still offer that program. But first things first. I also highly doubt you'll feel the same (bolded) way IF you get a few more years under your belt even as an E6.

Evaluation reports include a section for promotion recommendations that curbs inflation through forced distribution and stratification restrictions. In other words, not every one can get Early Promote/Promote Now or even Must Promote and I don't care how shit hot you are or how much you think you know or have done.

Here's how one(1) eval cycle went down aboard the USS John F Kennedy CV-67, aboard which I was Combat Systems CS-5 LCPO (Leading Chief Petty Officer). At any given time, I had 60-75 sailors assigned to CS-5 ... and then there was CS-1 through CS-4 and CS-6 and CS-7, each with their own LCPO and blue shirts. There were several hundred sailors in Combat Systems. People come and people go, times change but at the time, CS-5 was widely regarded as the best Division in Combat Systems and it was all because of "my" blue shirts, ... and I would and DID fight for them.

For the eval cycle, the Captain of the ship promulgated down to each Department Head aboard ship, EXACTLY how many sailors could be recommended as Promote Now and Must Promote. And the quotas got passed down. In Combat Systems department, the Department Master Chief tasked the Chiefs within Combat Systems to work it out among ourselves.

I felt a vast majority of "my" sailors deserved Promote Now and Must Promote but realistically that wasn't possible because of forced distribution and stratification restrictions. The wealth of top available recommendations had to be shared with other Divisions within Combat Systems, who also indeed had some shit hot performers.

So it was that all 25 or so of us Chiefs in Combat Systems Department sat down one afternoon in one of the Air Wing's ready rooms to hash it out. We were there for about three(3) hours (not like we had anything better to do) virtually fighting tooth and nail for our individual Divisional blue shirts.

Just so happened my Division had the current E-5 Combat Systems Sailor of the Quarter (SOQ). Things went pretty smoothly until we got around to talking among ourselves about promotion status of our individual E-5's. I KNEW my current SOQ should and would get Promote Now. Thing was I also had a couple of other E-5's who had just as good or better evals and bullets as the SOQ and one or two had previously been SOQ and had received Promote Now and there was absolutely no reason why they should receive anything less this eval cycle. I had to figure a way to also get them Promote Now or Must Promote as they had received on previous eval cycles, ... as well as fight for the up and comers in my Division.

As us Divisional Chiefs discussed individual E-5 sailors and agreed upon who should get what Promote recommendation ... I didn't even mention my current Combat Systems SOQ guy and held my breath in hopes that as I talked about each of my individual E-5's and their accomplishments and contributions, no one would even think about or mention my E-5 SOQ. As our discussions went along, I sensed that the other Divisional Chiefs tossed out the names of their top performers FIRST in the discussions of promotion recommendations and then tossed out names of lesser performer who may not have been any less deserving of the highest promotion recommendations. But I held the name of my shit hot Combat Systems SOQ from the discussions entirely, where another division would have mentioned him first for the highest promotion recommendation.

As it worked out, because I had such a stellar division (CS-5), I "held my cards" and was somehow still able to garner higher promotion recommendations and more of them than most all the other divisions in Combat Systems.

For E-5 "Promote Now", we were down to only one(1) more "Promote Now" to be selected, assigned and allocated to a departmental E-5. As mentioned, all the other Division Chiefs had already tossed out the names of their top performer FIRST and we'd worked through those allocations for recommendation. SOooo, only one Promote Now left to "argue" about. And I'm sure each individual Divisional Chief was thinking, "Well CS-5 won't get this last one. CS-5 already has most of the allotment for highest promotion recommendations and I'm sure it will go to my guy."

With that in mind and only one Promote Now left, each Divisional LCPO tossed out the name of maybe his third or fourth best performing E-5 in his Division. My turn to toss a name out and "from my hand" I pulled and tossed the name of my E-5 Combat Systems Sailor of the Quarter. Had I mentioned his name first, some of my other E-5's who were just as good as other divisions best E-5's likely wouldn't have gotten the higher promotion recommendation they deserved and received.

IMMEDIATELY ... 24 Chiefs in the room SHOT to their feet red in face and berating me for not mentioning him first (about half an hour ago) when we FIRST starting talking about E-5 promotion recommendations. "Of course he deserves a Promote Now. How could you NOT have mentioned him first !!!" I sat with my hands in air and feeling quite proud that I'd gotten the very best I could for "my guys". What else was I supposed to do?

The ranting went on and on to the point that someone decided they had to go and get Master Chief to sort this out. They deemed I hadn't "played fair". So in walked Master Chief and 24 Divisional Chiefs all at once and then in turn as Master Chief calmed them down, told Master Chief how I'd played "the system" and it just wasn't right or fair. Master Chief listened carefully and asked the 24 complaining Chiefs questions to determine if his task had been followed as instructed. The entire time I sat without saying a single word. I trusted Master Chief. Regardless of any decision he may have, I knew it would be the right one. After a time, the room got quiet as Master Chief thoughtfully considered the situation. Looking up, Master Chief's eyes found me and gazed a considered moment before slowly smiling and saying, "Well played. No foul."

Yes, I'd played it well. But the thing was, an E-5 in another division MAY have gotten a little less promotion recommendation than he actually deserved. And although I slept well that night knowing I'd done the very best I could for my blue shirts, I did feel a little bad for that sailor in another Division.

My E-5 SOQ got a "Promote Now". It was a little easier going through and discussing E-6 promotion recommendations, thankfully. I think everyone got the recommendation they deserved.

My Chief brothers didn't hold it against me. Some even admitted they'd have played it a little differently too, had they thought about it.

What happened in that room stayed in that room (until now I guess). Not a single blue shirt in my Division, not one, knew how it all went down concerning promotion recommendations. Sure there were sailors in my Division who felt the same as you. "Navy sux. What right do "they" have to evaluate me? When I make Admiral ... ." That didn't bother me. Your comment doesn't bother me. It's expected. A bitching sailor is a happy sailor ... they say. And some of them even got a "Promote" recommendation.

Chief Petty Officers aren't perfect either. The fouled anchor reminds us of that. Just remember that sometimes your Chief has to go to bat for you against the whole damn Department or Command. Give him a reason to. Your accomplishments, quals, collateral duties, and contributions in support of the command's mission speaks louder than most anything else.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hobbs,

^^^ sorry for the wall of writing but hope it may make a difference somewhere somehow. One can hope anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:
^^^ sorry for the wall of writing but hope it may make a difference somewhere somehow. One can hope anyway.

I understand the story and if that's the process I've seen would be delighted with it.

I shouldn't say the Navy as a whole is a joke, the lower enlisted promotion system is.

My e-6's will rank us, then my chiefs, then my DIVO will have the final say. He doesn't even work with us. It all comes down to what is on the bragsheet and eval.

The second part to that is the number of times I have been "placed" into an evaluation based off nothing more than cirumstance.

I promote to E-5. I have 9 months as an E-4 on that advancement cycle. Well since my next E-5 eval is only for 3 months worth, that 9 months was worthless. With only 3 months I am a P. Now, MANY i have encountered will flat out tell you that you cannot go from a P to an EP. Too great a jump and you must establish growth. Therefore I am placed in the MP when the eval is EP worthy because "that's how it is". Following the "system", I CANNOT hit an EP until my 3rd advancement cycle. Which means the benefit of "Early Promote" is lost.

I can place 90% of the sailors based off time on station and time in rank and save the entire eval writing process for many.

I understand this may not be how all commands do it but unfortunately in my CT world this is the norm.

I came to Korea half way through an eval cycle. Automatic EP transfer eval (that doesn't count on the testing cycle), and an automatic P (that counts) because my eval only shows 6 months of work compared to everyone else who has been here a year. So again, 6 months of wasted effort.

Evals and promotions are not the reason I apply myself but I don't like having smoke blown up my ass either when I know the game. I'm not advocating that my eval is the best, but evaluate based off the body of work, not a matrix.

It is a nice story you tell though, I always like to hear of Leadership going to bat for their sailors.

The Army does indeed have that program, even for E-4's now since they are hurting so bad. I'm in no rush to hit Warrant, I enjoy the enlisted community but with plans to retire I want to maximize the benefits.

Interestingly, aboard the USS John F Kennedy, CT's were a part of my CS-5 Division within Combat Systems. So were many IT's who worked in support of the Admiral and his staff. Thing was, even as CS-5 LCPO I couldn't go into those spaces unless they were "cleaned" first. There were also a couple of ET's along with all the FC's and former DS's in CS-5.

I only had a secret clearance. The Division Officer I worked for was a Warrant with almost 30yrs in and he mostly handled dealing with the top secret guys in our division.

The CT's were a world of their own. They didn't even muster with the division in the mornings. They were in my division but I didn't even know them and had nothing to do with their evals, liberty call or anything else for that matter. Come to think of it, I don't even recall seeing their pictures in our deployment cruise book. Spooky LOL.

As a young Data Systems Tecnician aboard my first ship, I worked next door to them (when they embarked for deployment). And later at FCTCPAC in Point Loma where I worked as a Data Systems repair technician in support of the OS schools command, I often worked around the CT's school and know they used, maintained and repaired the same equipment I did, but I couldn't touch theirs of course.

Just prior to completion of my JFK tour, I was relieved as CS-5 LCPO by a CTC ... who had been picked up for Warrant and was just "killing time" until his commission.

Sometimes timing is everything and certainly plays a role to a degree in the "luck" we have for billeting, advancement consideration, deployments, etc etc. The cream does ride to the top, so don't be discouraged and best of luck to you, shipmate. And I mean that sincerely and respectfully.

EDIT: As CS-5 LCPO I did write a special eval and recommendation for an IT3 who applied for OCS and got picked up. She returned to the ship for a visit after being commissioned an Ensign. I had to say yes ma'am to her and salute her. She laughed and laughed HA !!! ... And one of my E-5's I wrote a special eval and recommendation for got pickup up by the Army and Helo training ... which is right here on the Army Aviation Post Fort Rucker, where I now live in a city outside of the post. Us Navy guys sure are outnumbered around here but I run into a few now and then ... even a former CT I ran into in a bar a few months ago. Well, before the COVID shit storm and I quit going out. Been maybe about a year already I guess.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hobbs,

I dont let it get me down, i dont do this for the rank or money. I can honestly say i go home everyday proud od the work i do. Even if i cant talk about it

I just get tired of the BS that im sure 18-22 year old believe but i been around the block more than once.

When were you on the Kennedy, in high school late 90's i visited the Kennedy several times in Jax as my stepdad was an AOC aboard the Kennedy.