quote:

IRS considers cryptocurrency property and the SEC does not have any authority over any cryptocurrency.

Oh, well thank goodness that's permanent and isn't subject to change as cryptocurrencies develop and change.

You're right, I'm the idiot here. I've said my piece, have a great weekend.

Don't blame the bubble there's always people looking to be part of the next big one. It's almost a civic duty to take their money- They're just going to give it to someone else.

No one with even a fraction of a clue with respect to individual liberty and even a basic sense of resisting an overly authoritarian government would ever, ever, ever, support a system with nothing but electronic currency. The very idea is as vile as it gets, and nobody here in these United States that matters gives a single fuck what other countries do about such things. BBMW is out of his fucking mind, in this regard, or he's a fed, or a banker, or someone with a bizarre vested interest in such unbelievably ridiculous nonsense.

Sell that kooky shit elsewhere, we're all full here.

Figuratively speaking, he deserves a kick in the nuts for even suggesting it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
JALLEN: IRS considers cryptocurrency property and the SEC does not have any authority over any cryptocurrency. Even if they did the rest of the world doesn't care what the SEC or America thinks and will buy/trade as they please.

Governments and financial institutions are fearful of this because they can't control it. I saw an opportunity to buy an altcoin at a great value. I bought 5 figures worth of bitcoins on the local exchange and sent it to my European exchange so I could buy it. Cost: $0.06 (yup, not a typo). Total time to send, receive and buy the altcoin: less than 15 minutes. Oh, and I did that at 3am EST. Sure beat waiting until the bank opened at 8am, sit down with the bank manager, fill out all this paperwork and answer all sorts of questions as to why I need to wire money to Europe and pay a $45 wire fee that won't get there until they get another signature and it goes through SWIFT which means I wouldn't be able to access it until the next business day.

So, if it is cryptocurrency, and I get paid in it, then I don’t have to pay taxes?

Cryptocurrency is certainly property. What I don’t follow is that if I want to raise funds from the public, I can raise cryptocurrency, without full disclosure, prospectus, registration, licensing, just my word as a jolly good fellow, and be done with it.

quote:

Governments and financial institutions are fearful of this because they can't control it.

Jallen, in my experience, the second you hear these words, that's when you know when you're dealing with someone who has read a few internet pages re bitcoin and has drunk the koolaide.

When pressed, none of these kids have been able to explain to me why the government can't control it.

They will start to say that they can't control it because it's anonymous.

Then you remind them that they said it wasn't anonymous 5 sentences ago.

Then you point out that it doesn't really matter if it's anonymous or not. Because, if it is, the government will ban it eventually. If it isn't, the government will regulate it eventually.

Then you get to enjoy the look on their face when a small part of them realizes that the government can absolutely control it, but the majority of them still tries to resist that realization.

Hence for me, that statement is the absolute tell tale sign that you're dealing with someone who really doesn't understand Bitcoin, but is simply parroting back what the hype has told them.

JALLEN, you'll find your answers here.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
JALLEN, you'll find your answers here.

Thanks. Quite informative.

I’m perplexed about how, if the coin isn’t entitled to participate in the success of the operation, why it would be more valuable. Owning a coin appears to confer no rights on the owner than the envy of others who may pay more to be envied, or not.

Who gets the funds paid for the coins? What obligations do those recipients incur?

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

I’m perplexed about how, if the coin isn’t entitled to participate in the success of the operation, why it would be more valuable. Owning a coin appears to confer no rights on the owner than the envy of others who may pay more to be envied, or not.

Depends on the token. Bitcoin is many things, a store of value is one of them. Ethereum allows for programmable payment conditions so for someone who wants to be able to send X units of Ether to an address at a specific date and time, Ether is more valuable than Bitcoin.

Wealth isn't created it's merely transferred. Bitcoin has a market cap of over $100 billion which isn't nickels and times even though it might have been transferred in those increments at the very beginning. Top analysts project the cap to double or triple within the next year. People in the know see value in these coins/tokens and have exchanged fiat currency for it. It's legitimate now no matter what the naysayers want to believe and that's why I recommend learning about this than dismissing it.

Oh by the way, Overstock.com saw $100+ billion dollars sitting there and decided to accept Bitcoin and 40 other currencies as payment. Guess who's stock doubled in the last 2 months?

http://fortune.com/2017/08/08/...ck-digital-currency/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/1...ck-a-huge-boost.html

Here's a few examples to answer your question about why a coin/token can become more valuable:

http://augur.strikingly.com/blog/what-is-reputation

https://medium.com/@EthereumRu...-tokens-909e1ed2be8d

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/ar...-preview-1453821228/

quote:

none of these kids have been able to explain to me why the government can't control it.

after reviewing a limited amount regarding 'crypto-trans-currency theories', and given my own relative naivete on such matters, it sounds like some vapor-like economic derivative announces it has determined it is of great value and is now looking for a pot to piss in, but the bad economic conservatives won't build a special facility to do such.

So far there has been ~zero~ reason for anyone such as myself, to cultivate a need for such a theory of economic exchange, other than the pitch it will expand into something ever more useful and grand as long as regulatory plumbing doesn't spoil the show.

From what I understand about crypto currency (and admittedly that's very little) it seems that the real technology to watch here is not the currency aspect but the block chain technology that it's built upon. From what I've gathered it has many applications and is extremely secure. Again, just what I have gathered from some very casual reading.

Cold hard cash will never go away.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Cold hard cash will never go away.

Nor should it.

And anyone advocating such may as well be an enemy and tyrant who would just as soon take your guns too. There can be no liberty in any true sense without such options.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
Here's a few examples to answer your question about why a coin/token can become more valuable:

http://augur.strikingly.com/blog/what-is-reputation

https://medium.com/@EthereumRu...-tokens-909e1ed2be8d

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/ar...-preview-1453821228/

I’m not sure if you realize this, but the links you’re posting are from the pumpers of the pump and dump scheme.

Here’s this whole thing in a nut shell3

1) I don’t want to give up stock in my company, but I need to raise capital.

2) I’m going to offer an ICO and hope someone gives me real cash.

3) if they give me real cash I’m going to give them a “dinglehopper.”

4) they can never take possession of this dinglehopper. It exists only in a virtual world I created.

5) they will only be able to sell that dinglehopper for more money than they paid for it, if they can convince someone else to give them more money.

6) nothing I do with my company affects the value of the dinglehopper.

As it was once described, this is nothing more than kids passing back and forth pieces of paper with higher and higher dollar values written on them. When the passing inevitably stops, the last guy holding the bag of nothing loses big.

It’s a Ponzi scheme and it will be buried by governments eventually.

In my opinion, it’s a game of finding someone dumb enough to give you real money for nothing. That that guy has to find someone dumber than him to give him even more money for it.

The sources in your links are the snake oil salesmen hoping to convince dummies to give them their money for quite literally nothing.

It’s a speculation Ponzi scheme and nothing more. That you’re linking these sources makes me doubt you have even a rudimentary understanding of the financial markets and the underlying regulation of them.

You’re spewing this hype to good people here and only fueling the scheme man.

quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Eye:
There's simply too much information about BTC that isn't going to be summed up in one post. All I have to say is that cryptocurrencies are the future. Period. Remember this thing called the "personal computer" or "the internet?" Cryptocurrency is the next thing that will change the world and how we look back on it.

I have a question on the basic mechanics on the bitcoin. I've read several articles but none gave me the answer I'm looking for.

Nevermind about how people make money by mining and ensuring the integrity of the system. Nevermind about how bitcoins keep growing in value.

Here's my question: I deposit money in a checking account with my bank or I gave money to my bank in exchange for a stack of blank checks. I write out a check for a certain amount and I give it to someone. That someone can take that check and deposit it in their bank and the banking system's clearing house moves the value of the check from my checking account to the person's checking account.

I exchange $7000 in US dollars for a bitcoin from "approved(?)" bitcoin "wholesaler" A. I give that bitcoin to someone. That someone takes the bitcoin to "wholesaler" B. How do the ledgers of wholesaler A and B get reconciled?

If this goes on, Wholesaler A will be left with cash and wholesaler B will be left with bitcoins. What happens when there's a net trend of people wanting to cash out their bitcoins for some fiat currency or gold instead? Who is going to act as the clearing house or central banker to make good on the bitcoins? Do you understand my question?

Great question. I'll start by saying if I wanted to send you a bitcoin you'd need to create a bitcoin wallet which has an address. I would instruct my wallet to send 1 bitcoin to your address and once I hit send that request will be sent to the miners where it gets recorded and within 10 minutes that transaction is recorded in all the miners' databases and it's finalized.

If I was supposed to get $7,000 for it I should have had it cash in hand or in an account before I sent the bitcoin because there is no way to reverse the transaction. Once it's in your account you own it and can exchange it for cash from a bitcoin ATM or setup an account with an exchange like Coinbase/GDAX, send the coin to your wallet on their platform and exchange it for USD that can be traded on the platform or sent to bank account via wire/ETF.

Edited to add: There is no reconciliation like a checking account because the value of bitcoin is fluid. When a bitcoin is transfered its value in USD isn't recorded. It simply takes one coin out of my wallet and moves it into yours. A bank depositing a check for $7,000 would have to wait for the issuing bank to send the money and until it cleared the funds would not be available to use in your account.

There's a coin called Tether (USDT) and each coin is equal to one USD. There's also exchanges that allow you to exchange currencies and ensures that each party gets the currency they negotiated with each other for a fee.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Cold hard cash will never go away.

Nor should it.

And anyone advocating such may as well be an enemy and tyrant who would just as soon take your guns too. There can be no liberty in any true sense without such options.

No doubt.

My son heard about bit coin in 2013, and purchased some for around $30.00 each. His investment is worth 100s of thousands now.

(Too bad he sold for a profit a long time ago, and his investment became someone else's. )

quote:

Originally posted by synthplayer:
My son heard about bit coin in 2013, and purchased some for around $30.00 each. His investment is worth 100s of thousands now.

(Too bad he sold for a profit a long time ago, and his investment became someone else's. )

I put $2,000 into bitcoin back in 2012. I had to sell it because of health issues but if I was able to keep it, it's worth around $3.3 million today based on the BTC $6,858.01 & BCH $979.10 price I see on my trading screen. What's BCH and why did I include it in the total value? Heh. I'm getting crucified for trying to spread the truth about bitcoin. No way I'm going down that path but that's going to skyrocket too (already did today. Up 50% and guess who's 3am transfer got in on it).

Google articles about police departments who auction off drug dealer bitcoin wallets because they're too stupid to encrypt them. One was bought at auction for $18 million and now it's worth... whatever 48,000 bitcoins X $6853 is.

Got it... $328,944,000.