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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Technology is neutral; the people who use it are not. Some will be good, some bad. Pope Leo’s ‘Magnifica humanitas’: AI must serve humanity not concentrate power Marking the 135th anniversary of Rerum novarum, Pope Leo XIV releases his first encyclical, entitled ‘Magnifica humanitas: On Safeguarding the Human Person in the Time of Artificial Intelligence.’ He appeals for the safeguarding of humanity, promotion of truth, dignity of work, social justice, and peace. https://www.vaticannews.va/en/...ca-humanitas-ai.html MAGNIFICA HUMANITAS ON SAFEGUARDING THE HUMAN PERSON IN THE TIME OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE https://www.vatican.va/content...ifica-humanitas.html "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Smarter than the average bear |
Screw those data centers. What we need is some new buggy whip factories! | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
I think there's some confusion over traditional data centers versus the "new" AI data centers. I'm guessing skins works at a traditional data center. The new AI data centers require much more energy and cooling capability. Here's an AI output describing the differences at a high level: The word "Training" as it relates to AI is a euphemism for the "learning" the AI Large Language Models (LLM) have to do. AI data centers are purpose-built for training and running massive machine learning models, whereas traditional data centers focus on general enterprise applications like hosting websites and storing databases. AI facilities require significantly higher power, advanced liquid cooling, and ultra-fast networking compared to standard facilities. Compute Power: Traditional centers rely on Central Processing Units (CPUs) for sequential processing. AI data centers depend heavily on Graphics Processing Units (GPUs) and specialized chips designed to process huge volumes of data in parallel. Energy Density: Traditional server racks typically draw 5 to 10 kilowatts. AI racks pack high-density hardware that demands 40 to 100+ kilowatts per rack. Cooling Systems: While legacy centers usually rely on fans and standard air conditioning, the immense heat generated by AI GPUs requires advanced liquid cooling, rear-door heat exchangers, or direct-to-chip cooling. | |||
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Ammoholic |
Someone gets it. We spent a lot on the space race, but now we have tang, Velcro, and hundreds of things that would otherwise taken decades to devise. Many would say the existence of ICMBs is a bad thing, I still want the US to have the best ICBMs on the planet. I think 50% of the complaints could be handled with 500' setbacks for non-residential areas and 1000' setbacks for residential areas. Noise mitigation and requirements for treelines. Combined with a proper assessment of resources available we could probably push that number to 80%. I do find it interesting that many align with .orgs with names like justice, revolution, and revolt in their names. Usually when I see that it's a red flag. I think there's a happy medium between 15 year environmental impact studies and a brief and through vetting. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Baroque Bloke |
I don’t spend much time and energy on things I can’t change. Serious about crackers. | |||
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| Member |
It's a simple fact that we are going to have data centers - yes, the new, big ones: DATA CENTERS as previously denominated in this thread. The huge amounts of data attendant to modern society demand them. The question is where. In my area, this is a huge issue. A data center was recently rebuffed, largely because the local government officials were "fast tracking" it with no real disclosures, bypassing the zoning/land use permitting processes, and generally telling everyone not to bother their pretty little heads about complicated, big boy things. The predictable result, given the pre-existing (justified) distrust of our local county government, was a veritable uprising against the data center. It was slated to go into a beatific, parklike area, not the commercially zoned area, and no one ever made clear what the water and electricity usages would be, potential environmental impact, or how big their tax breaks could be. It was a blueprint of how to do everything wrong. Frankly, a data center could probably be good for our county, if placed in the proper location. It's going to be a while before anyone is willing to broach that possiblity again, though. __________________________ "Sooner or later, wherever people go, there's the law. And sooner or later, they find out that God's already been there." -- John Wayne as Chisum | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
This is probably the biggest issue with AI Data centers, local governments simply approving them with zero local input, or, if you do get to input citizens concerns are simply pushed aside when it comes time to vote. Money talks, politicians see putting this on their resumes as a great thing, what happens to the area post installation isn't important to many of them. China is fast tracking these because as a communist government they will put them wherever they want, and don't care what it does to the local quality of life or natural resources. It seems as if that same attitude is going on in the US as we're told by those "that are smarter" that we'll lose out and end up behind if we don't let tech expand the data centers. Perhaps there is some truth in the need to build them, but it doesn't mean we need them on every farm outside of some city taking over prime farm or open land. Guess I kinda sound like a green piece eco hippy anti establishmentarian from the 60's but hey... I just don't trust tech's reasoning or local government commissioners to do the research. Tech is great for many things, and it's also a monster that needs to constantly be fed, it will gobble up whatever it wants to continue to grow... | |||
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| Member |
Please give the prompt and site you used to pull up this bull shit. Did you ever ask for the definition/difference of a "traditional" data center vs an "AI" data center? Did you ever ask why we shouldn't be using GPU chips? Did you ever ask if modern AI data centers re-use their water or keep it in a closed cycle loop. HINT: Sometimes follow up questions help with your understanding of a problem that is outside of your universe. | |||
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| Member |
Interestingly, China is putting data centers in the ocean. I figure as you do, that a communist government could put them wherever it pleases. That raises the question of why, if the Chinese find it feasible to put them in the ocean, other countries don't. It's not likely that the Chicoms are worried about preserving park like glades throughout the land, or depriving the peasants of a lovely aesthetic. __________________________ "Sooner or later, wherever people go, there's the law. And sooner or later, they find out that God's already been there." -- John Wayne as Chisum | |||
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| Member |
Surprised no-one has brought up Elon's and SpaceX's plan for data centers in space. | |||
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| Green grass and high tides  |
You can bet the politicians, Rich, famous and elites won't have them in their neighborhoods. Everyone else, well sure there's no harm in them, build away. If you are reading some of the responses in this thread and reading the flock camera thread and still think this is all fine and dandy. Good on you. Carry on. Funny skins mentions china multiple times. Many people think that is exactly where we are headed and are not that far from the surveillance state. I think if you are a republican that may be luke warm on their efforts on your behalf. I think there is a good chance that these mega data centers are going to turn off a lot of people. If trump does not address concerns I think there is a very good chance it will hurt him in 27' and 28. A lot of folks are going to know more about these in the next three or 4 months. Ymmv "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Jesse, (Skins, the OP), lives in Loudoun County, Virginia, one of the wealthiest counties in America... and it's just outside of DC, full of politicians. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Green grass and high tides |
That does not mean they live next door to one. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Member |
Somewhere there is a data center that houses computers that are running simulations on how damaging data centers are, while somewhere else is a data center devoted to compiling data on folks who complain about data centers so that new data centers can be located close to the people who complain the most. Data ceenters, now with even MORE DATA! Can you feel it? All that data. | |||
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| Green grass and high tides |
S, are all those huge concrete building they rushed up on the Wa. Idaho border in the last few years data centers?  "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Microsoft tried this. They ended up determining that saltwater is corrosive and it's not easy to swap a blade under water. I'm guessing China will probably come to a similar conclusion. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Internet Guru |
Opinions can vary, but data centers are as inevitable as the sun coming up in the morning. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Not it you join the #resistance, it's a revolution, we demand justice! Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Baroque Bloke |
The water driven through the racks could be fresh water which is subsequently cooled by ocean water heat exchanger. Serious about crackers. | |||
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| Member |
Gotta tell you Skins, you're arguments have been Rock Solid. This has been a very interesting thread. | |||
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