quote:

Originally posted by soggy_spinout:

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Males can weigh 125 pounds or more.

One was caught and tagged earlier this year that weighed in at just under 200lbs. It seems we sometimes grow 'em big in northeastern WA.

My neighbor up at my cabin has one stuffed that went 175. He also told me the one I caught on video by my front porch was bigger than that. We were inside the cabin that very night. I wouldn't want to face him in a fair fight, much less being stalked. Look at those legs!

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

With all due respect:
I reject your notion that man is just an animal.
Your opinion is nothing more than a theory, a guess, a hypothesis, an opinion.
It is not a statement of fact.
Your premise is false.

Are you a robot?

I know that isn't what you mean, but what do you mean, "not an animal?"

I think we are exactly that - an animal, although one with higher mental capacity. (Which is why we can think about whether we need to automatically kill other apex predators.) It is a difference of degree, not a difference in kind.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

With all due respect:
I reject your notion that man is just an animal.
Your opinion is nothing more than a theory, a guess, a hypothesis, an opinion.
It is not a statement of fact.
Your premise is false.

Are you a robot?

I know that isn't what you mean, but what do you mean, "not an animal?"

I think we are exactly that - an animal, although one with higher mental capacity. (Which is why we can think about whether we need to automatically kill other apex predators.) It is a difference of degree, not a difference in kind.

I know what you believe, Its just what you believe is just a guess, NOT a statement of fact as you purport.

Really confuses me why some people have such a low view of man and then speak as if they have it all figured out?

By the way, when did you last see any animal building a hospital or a cancer ward or a surgery center?

And while we are at facts, when can you prove any animal mid-species? I'll be holding my breath - sigh

That's why I have no problem killing animals for the purpose of depredation, man IS different from animals. Don't think they have the death penalty for killing animals...yet

I just refuse to swallow the evolution pill that so many have. (red or blue one)
"If" your premise is false, so is your conclusion.

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Originally posted by sigmoid:

I just refuse to swallow the evolution pill that so many have.

Okay, I get it now. Discussing this with you won't take us anywhere.

Sixty-five million years ago, a large asteroid struck the Earth in the vicinity of the Yucatan penninsula, creating a "nuclear winter" which killed off all the mega fauna, but all the little furry creatures survived, and those little furry bastards are our ancestors.

Man is most decidedly and without any doubt whatsoever, an animal. Your appendix is the vestige of a second stomach from when we ate our meat raw. Your set of teeth contains incisors. We are high-order social primates. We are animals.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Sixty-five million years ago, a large asteroid struck the Earth in the vicinity of the Yucatan penninsula, creating a "nuclear winter" which killed off all the mega fauna, but all the little furry creatures survived, and those little furry bastards are our ancestors.

Man is most decidedly and without any doubt whatsoever, an animal. Your appendix is the vestige of a second stomach from when we ate our meat raw. Your set of teeth contains incisors. We are high-order social primates. We are animals.

Haha!
See what I mean? when I was in school, it was One hundred and sixty-five million years ago...


Oh well, someone is right and someone is wrong

Guess we could ask the biker, but wait, no we can't.
I give up...

Look it up if you need to. I didn't have to look it up, but I suggest that you do. For the purposes of my point, I fail to see what difference it makes.

And no, I do not see what you mean. If the Earth's history clashes with the teachings of the bible, that's not my problem.

I don’t know if this was brought up but from the pictures at the scene these guys were on a gravel trail on cyclocross bikes not mountain bikes. They couldn’t have been that far off the beaten path.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Look it up if you need to. I didn't have to look it up, but I suggest that you do. For the purposes of my point, I fail to see what difference it makes.

And no, I do not see what you mean. If the Earth's history clashes with the teachings of the bible, that's not my problem.

Mike,
I have looked it up and studied the "evidence".
Its just that you and jhe888 have more faith than me.
I won't muddy the thread anymore but would like to pursue this further as far as the "dates" being relative and all, if not, ok by me.
We all have opinions


Shit
I am wrong...
Lo siento
Human Animal

it seems that people who believe we should ignore natural predators when they eat humans, have never been stalked or threatened by one. if one of these great creatures grabbed someone they loved near an area frequented by humans, and dragged them into the bush and ate them, would they change their mind ? they probably would. that would be my test for a "true believer" so to speak. it's like melennials rejecting capitalism in favor of one of the other isims, while they're participating in capitalism. just another form of hypocracy in a different wrapper.

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Originally posted by wrightd:
it seems that people who believe we should ignore natural predators when they eat humans, have never been stalked or threatened by one. if one of these great creatures grabbed someone they loved near an area frequented by humans, and dragged them into the bush and ate them, would they change their mind ? they probably would. that would be my test for a "true believer" so to speak. it's like melennials rejecting capitalism in favor of one of the other isims, while they're participating in capitalism. just another form of hypocracy in a different wrapper.

I don’t see it as hypocrisy to question whether we have to kill an animal. There is a whole continuum of approaches, from stay in the city and never venture onto their turf on one extreme and fire up the full military might of the USA and exterminate them all on the other extreme. Personally, I think both extremes are absurd. What the right balance is in the middle may depend on one’s experience and situation. Those who live in the city and don’t have problems with them may tend more toward the leave them alone. Those who have problems may lean more the other way.

When we first bought goats, we bought 109. A lion or multiple lions killed half of them in a month. Ten went one night from a smaller (~5 acre) pen with a seven foot fence with the only thing left being a large pile of scat. No hide, no blood, nothing left. He or they killed them and packed them out over the fence. Talking with trappers, we could kill lions all we wanted (with appropriate depredation permits of course) and it wouldn’t matter as they’d just be replaced by another. Putting guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees / Anatolian Shepherd crosses) in with the goats did the trick. I’m sure the lions still hungrily eye the goats from time to time, but they seem to think it isn’t worth the fight and they’ll just go find a careless deer. I find plenty of deer that they have killed.

Now if they get too close to us or the house I won’t hesitate or lose a moment of sleep over putting a hole in them, but after living here 13 years that really doesn’t seem to be an issue. Still keep our eyes open though...

quote:

Originally posted by bigmule:
A bell would have done the trick.
No pistol needed.

A pistol is louder.



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