You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I am sure a human is an easier prey to kill than a deer. Once they get a taste for human flesh they are very dangerous. Same with lions and tigers in other countries that start feeding on humans.That is why they are hunted down and killed.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

Look at your kitty snoozing on your lap. Ever try to pick him up when he does not want to cooperate? Quite a struggle in your arms!
Then consider Mountain Lion fun facts:
Stealth ambush apex predator.
Mainly nocturnal. Hunts alone.
Range can be a small as 10 square miles and as large as 350 square miles.
Largest hind leg structure of all the big cats.
Horizontal leap of 40 feet plus.
Vertical leap of 15 feet plus. Adept climber.
Can run at 45 MPH, mainly in short sprints.
Males can weigh 125 pounds or more. Females can go 100 pounds.
Nose to tail can measure just under 8 feet.
Takes its prey by attack from the rear, with a bite to the neck to kill.
Population is around 30K, mainly in western states.
All in all, a superbly equipped and athletic hunter.
Of course, actual attacks on humans are quite rare. But the one thing most scary to confront in the Yoop woods would be a mountain lion. The only thing that would be more scary would be a Grizzly. And we don't have them.
But.... given the attack style, could you prevail? Toss him off your back long enough to draw and plink him? I wonder....

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

We still kill the cat. It's primordial. Our ancestors weren't as ignorant as we like to pretend. They exterminated animals that had problems coexisting with humans. We don't need to exterminate cougars, but we do need to eliminate the man eaters and keep them out of urban areas.

All this talk about bells, I've never heard this.
Would maybe a really loud and piercing whistle be as good or better? I just saw a good sized coyote at the edge of our property and firearms are not an option. The wife is not happy outside so she's carrying a stout stick and a particularly slashy karambit.

Anyone who thinks that cougars should be able to thrive in large numbers where humans thrive should read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Eaters_of_Kumaon

A great read, and reminder about who SHOULD be in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

We still kill the cat. It's primordial. Our ancestors weren't as ignorant as we like to pretend. They exterminated animals that had problems coexisting with humans. We don't need to exterminate cougars, but we do need to eliminate the man eaters and keep them out of urban areas.

As we keep expanding the urban areas, we are encroaching on their territory.

quote:

Originally posted by taco68:
Up here in northern Minnesota, the DNR says big cats don't exist here. Myself and my two hunting partners call BS on that. One fall about eight years ago, we were cleaning up trails and getting ready for deer season. One of the guys found "big" cat tracks in mud. All three of us knew right away what they were. We grew up in those woods together and never worried about taking a pistol with us.

That same fall when deer season started, after a week into it, we had a heavy wet snowfall about eight inches one night. That morning I made it to my enclosed stand in the dark(used atv). About three hours later, nature called so I had to go take a walk. I go do my business and text one buddy that I am going for a walk by the "pallet bridge". I got to the pallet bridge, holy shit, there were cat tracks and tail "swish" marks in the fresh snow. I called my buddy and told him to get over there (five minute walk for him). Now, two grown men here stood in disbelief(still unsure of tracks earlier in the mud, confirmed now! I don't think we had a hair on our body that was not standing.

We called the other buddy. He is more of our pro tracker. He was there in ten minutes. He turned a little pale when he saw those tracks.

He/She is still in the area! Two years ago, the GF was hunting with me. We were bored and decided to go for a walk. Ten minutes into the walk, a fresh ass pile of cat scat right smack in the middle of our trail. We have wolves and coyotes all over and knew what theirs looked like. I told her we need to move and forget about deer. Now my head and eyes were on a swivel looking in trees as we were headed out of the woods.

After the first tracks eight years ago, we do not go into those woods without an exposed handgun on our hip!

When DNR says cats don't inhabit their jurisdiction, what they're really saying is, we don't want to manage another resource because we don't have the funding. I know someone who saw a cat full broadside while deer hunting in an area where they don't officially exist.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

Yes, we kill them. It’s not predator / prey killing its territorial killing.

We strayed into its, or it strayed into ours doesn’t matter. We’re the apex it messed with us, we killed it.

Not exclusive to humans. Wolves kill Other k9s that enter their territory. Baboons do it to other primates, hippos do it to everything, etc. etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by usp_fan:
... I have taken to carrying when riding. I do need a better, more accessable solution. In the top of the Camelbak doesn't lend itself to quick access.

The Hill People Gear Recon Kit Bag is what you want. It's what I use.

That's a great suggestion. I'll have to check it out.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

I understand the argument. We don't want to be eaten.

But in a larger sense, predators prey on other animals. In the way the world is put together, we humans are sometimes prey. (And we are also often predators ourselves.) But we are the only animal that can execute a plan that can come pretty damn close to exterminating any other animal that might prey on us. Should we do that?

I do not include any individual human from fighting any individual other animal that is trying to kill him.

My question is about predators that are, in general, minding their own business. (As I said before, this doesn't include lions living in a small city park - ones that are an extreme danger to humans.)

With all due respect:
I reject your notion that man is just an animal.
Your opinion is nothing more than a theory, a guess, a hypothesis, an opinion.
It is not a statement of fact.
Your premise is false.

Those recommending a caliber, or asking if their current favorite is enough, can lions tell chambering? Do they prefer fighting with a nickel, engraved, or standard finish? Can they tell if the hiker used WD40 or some high dollar lubricant? These are important issues.

I used to read papers from small towns in western Colorado. I was specifically scanning them for these kinds of reports. It seems lions don't like to get shot or injured by anything. Something about them not lasting in the wilds if injured. No one bothered to explain to them the concept of ERs or hospitals.

The professional hunters or those who did the hunting often use small caliber guns. Often the grossly under powered 22lr. Something about them not being hard to kill. Of course if Mr.Lion is chewing on your head, its tough to take you time for an aimed shot. My guess would be that any shot that was a solid hit, being in the head (pumpkin haid for us country folk) or right square in the ass would be a good start. I'd think a repeating firearm would be good here. Its OK to shoot him in the other foot if handy. If male, you could even shoot him in his male parts. Best to shoot him anyplace when he's trying to chew your head off.

I have thin skin, like when someone is complaining about me not spelling a word their satisfaction. I'd bet those complainers would step back and reconsider when I've just fired a 22 into his dinger. Even more when I lodge one in his right ear. What I'm trying to get at is lions are considered thin skinned game. If the critter hasn't pounced yet, any gunshot will probably serve as a warning its time to break off contact and seek an unarmed liberal for supper.

Its funny and predictable to read the wildlife folks suggesting you hold your hands over your head so you look bigger. Or wave your jacket to see if he's a bullfighting fan. But here's where your 10mm (just a .41 mag) may have the advantage. I've read they don't like fire very much. If the gun you select tends to char everything down range, its probably a good one. Better if you can shoot it worth a darn. But the 22 is better if you can actually hit what you're shooting at. If he's got hold of you, its better to waste that first shot and give him something to think about. Like the pain in his groin or right ear.

I've often wandered about all the pictures of the lions playing by the book and stopping to snarl at lunch. Anyone ever learned what a lion thinks about being shot in the open mouth? Just above his tongue and below the roof of his mouth? Put it as deep down into the boiler room as you can get it. Through the throat. Pretty hard to snarl with a throat full of lead.

So I'm going to guess different rules apply depending on if you're the lunch or the animal is the lunch. No need to wait for the ideal shot placement. Any hit is a good hit. I know your luck has pretty much run out if he's stalking you. But chances are just as good for a follow up shot if you don't wait for the perfect one. Play cowboys and lions. Shoot as often as you can hit him. From as near or far as it makes sense to try.

With deer, they tend to vanish at the first gunshot. Not wanting to hang around to give you another try. Thats kind of a good answer for you and Mr Lion. If he elects to stand and fight, shoot him again. If he jumps on you, shoot his down side foot. Even if you die, its better to have some leaking holes in him. Makes it easier for the sheriff to track him. With the aid of the fish and wildlife folks, after they take their good natured time arriving.

quote:

Originally posted by usp_fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by usp_fan:
... I have taken to carrying when riding. I do need a better, more accessable solution. In the top of the Camelbak doesn't lend itself to quick access.

The Hill People Gear Recon Kit Bag is what you want. It's what I use.

That's a great suggestion. I'll have to check it out.

That would take you way too long to get that pistol out in an oh shit moment.. just get a regular holster or a chest rig holster because if a big cat or bear is charging you you’re not going to have the time or motor skills to dick with that zipper

quote:

Males can weigh 125 pounds or more.

One was caught and tagged earlier this year that weighed in at just under 200lbs. It seems we sometimes grow 'em big in northeastern WA.

Not sure WHERE by North Bend this happened but prior to the mountain bikers taking over much of the areas near the town, this attack would've never occurred. Some of the best outdoor shooting spots around were in this area, now all shut down to promote other "recreational activities". Wildlife rarely if ever ventured nearby with all the gunfire.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
if a big cat or bear is charging you you’re not going to have the time or motor skills to dick with that zipper

I have not seen that particular chest pack, but if it's anything like my fanny pack ("Geezer pack"), there's a tail end of paracord hanging out. Just yank on that cord and the breakaway zipper instantly pops open, all the way, giving unrestricted access to the handgun in the internal holster.

quote:

When DNR says cats don't inhabit their jurisdiction, what they're really saying is, we don't want to manage another resource because we don't have the funding.

We heard that here in Missouri for years. On occasion one would be seen or pop up on a hunting cam. The line was "it is just traveling through". Apparently males are run out at a certain age and will begin to move east in search of a mate. They keep moving until they find one or die. If there is no breeding population, there are no lions living in your area.

Just recently one of these big cats was hit and killed by a car about 3 miles from my home. They said it was another traveler until it was determined that it was a female. Whoops! Now we have a breeding population in the area all of a sudden. They are still spotted occasionally but I have yet to hear of any close human contact.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

That would take you way too long to get that pistol out in an oh shit moment.. just get a regular holster or a chest rig holster because if a big cat or bear is charging you you’re not going to have the time or motor skills to dick with that zipper

You simply grab and pull and you have access to your firearm. You're not dicking around with anything.

A holster is always going to be a better draw, but it is not always the most convenient or practical.

quote:

You need to track the animal down and kill it because it now has added humans to the menu. In the future, it may hunt humans. Killing humans is not an accepted 'thing' for Cougars to do.

yeah thats one answer to the situation .

Hey it worked on the native American's , so....


OR !

they could have taken 7 minutes out of their ultra high stressed , super important all encompassing ,super human daily schedule
to do just the least little bit of
home work.

they wouldn't go riding through their neighbor's
front and back yard's w/o any expected consequence's, so why in the hell would you do it in the cougar's front / back yards?

They were ass hats who chose NOT ! to use the brains they claim to have, it's that simple.

As to killing the cougar after the attack…

Most cougars that attack people do so because they’re old or injured, and can’t catch anything but long pig. That seems to be the case in this incident – the cougar was described as emaciated. Likely it would’ve had a short, sad life if it hadn’t been shot dead.