quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I used to work with this M.D. back in the previous century. One day, he says he wants to get his pilot's license. I laughed. You? He says why not and I said because I know you and also, you can't turn on the news these days without seeing some single engine airplane in the trees or flattened in a soybean field.



So, he gets all into it, puts up this lifesize poster of the cockpit controls of a Cessna 172 or some such, gets his little books out to study, the whole deal.
He gets his pilot's license, flies a few times, then one day, the poster in his office is gone. It turns out that the Cessna he rented crashed on takeoff at PDK and killed the occupants. It could have just as easily have been him and he knew it.

Yep, like I said, I know you, buddy. You're just not cut out for it. No more flying.

Our doctor in the 1960s had a jar with the remnants of a piston in it.
Claimed the engine blew just before takeoff.
He said, he never piloted an airplane again.

Also seem to recall V-Tail Bonanzas as being called doctor killers.
Not necessarily the aircraft's fault, however.

quote:

Also seem to recall V-Tail Bonanzas as being called doctor killers.
Not necessarily the aircraft's fault, however.

Forked Tail Doctor Killer

Currently being replaced by the Cirrus SR22. Fly the numbers people.

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:

I thought Denver's issue was that he took off without realizing he was low on gas.

Denver's issue was poor construction of the Vari-Eze he was flying, that wasn't built by him. The fuel selector was behind him, and in turning around to switch tanks (a common thing in managing fuel in small aircraft) he lost control and crashed. My speculation is that he had stomped on a rudder pedal in his efforts to twist around, which is why he "spiraled in" according to witness accounts. Had he been higher than a hundred feet off the deck, he may have had time to recover.

He was an inexperienced pilot.

Think about driving. Most of us have probably been in cars (maybe even driving) when someone did something dumb and caused a minor wreck. Or maybe even caused a more significant wreck.

Do that in an airplane and you get killed.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve 22X:
Bonanzas as being called doctor killers. Not necessarily the aircraft's fault, however.

Nah, Bonanzas are not doctor killers, but some doctors are Bonanza killers.

I have had both kinds, as trainee / clients. Some doctors (and other professions) want to carry their professional authority into aviation. Attitude is that they are "in charge" in their professional settings, and they think that this qualifies them to be in charge in aviation. This type of person does not take instruction or coaching well. Heck, I remember in the 1960s, United Airlines had a ground handler strike, and a couple of UAL pilots showed up at the training facility where I was working, wanted to use the down time to get Instructor certificates. Their attitude was that they knew more about flying than I did. Yup, they probably did, but I definitely knew more about how the FAA wanted instruction done; they both failed the Flight Instructor checkride with the FAA and came back to me, ready to listen to what I was trying to tell them.

The other type of flying doctor that it has really been my pleasure to work with, is the guy (or gal) who has a lot of questions, wants to gain understanding and insight, and is willing to work with the instructor to achieve a good transfer of knowledge. These folks usually turn into pilots who are very well prepared to deal with problem situations.

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:

quote:

Originally posted by ac26:
It seems to me the crash was a lot like John Denver’s fatal crash. Very low and fast over water or land is always dangerous. There is little time to deal with any outside influences or inattention.

Roy Halladay was an amazing pitcher. Condolences to his family. RIP

I thought Denver's issue was that he took off without realizing he was low on gas.

Denver was low, needed to switch tanks, the fuel selector valve was awkwardly located for a man his size, he had very little experience in this plane, although lots of experience as a pilot.

If you are close to the ground when something goes wrong, you often don’t have time to realize it, figure it out, and take action before you run out of chances.

Has anyone read the NTSB report on Thurman Munson? The exact same factors, low time in type, close to the ground, on approach, something goes wrong, gets behind the speed/power required, and crashes short of the runway.

Here is a link to the final accident report for John Denver:

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenera...RType=Final&IType=FA

I was searching for an ELT signal a couple of years later, and the location we ended up turned out to be a storage building for aircraft pending the final report and insurance findings. While we were there, the proprietor took us over and showed us what was left of Denver's airplane - a small pile of scrap about 18-24 inches high and about 3-4 feet across. The engine wasn't there as it had been taken elsewhere for analysis.

It is sad to note that he died 20 years ago last month.

I don't know the full details of how this guy bit it, but to parallel Para's MD post, and the audio commentary here:

https://deadspin.com/boston-sp...ut-how-ro-1820270092

Attempted audio link: https://content.jwplatform.com...823e053ec019440dad69

I have a wife and 4 kids that I love dearly. I'm not picking up hobbies like this.

quote:

Originally posted by JJexp:

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:

I thought Denver's issue was that he took off without realizing he was low on gas.

Denver's issue was poor construction of the Vari-Eze he was flying, that wasn't built by him. The fuel selector was behind him, and in turning around to switch tanks (a common thing in managing fuel in small aircraft) he lost control and crashed. My speculation is that he had stomped on a rudder pedal in his efforts to twist around, which is why he "spiraled in" according to witness accounts. Had he been higher than a hundred feet off the deck, he may have had time to recover.

I was involved in the investigation, and you have the circumstances basically correct. It was a LongEZ completed by an equine veterinarian who moved the fuel selector from between the pilots legs (to make room for a DiscMan) to the behind the pilot's left shoulder. Like most accidents, a chain of mistakes and poor decisions that resulted in Denver's demise.

He was a lower time inexperienced pilot. Everyone else has speculated as to why it happened. As mentioned extra altitude buys you time for your brain to process what is really happening. Flying low and fast over the water is not a good technique for survival.

I did my ASEL two summers ago. Spent hours studying, and 6-7 learning the maneuvers and procedures. You can't find one to rent just anywhere. I try to find them to fly when I'm out on trips, but have only managed to build up 20 hours or so. You always have to go with another CFI because of insurance requirements. He apparently lost respect for what the aircraft was capable of and lost his life. It's too sad.

I mean look at how it's marketed - formation flying, low altitude flight, water landings - that shit is EASY. And with a couple hundred $$$ and 30 hours of flight time, this can be YOU>

Little do they know that most regular low time civie flight involves a straightahead ahead takeoff, climb to a couple thousand feet, motor around somewhere, then do a bunch of touch and go's to build experience. AKA, it makes for a BOOORING movie.

This much is known. He was hot dogging. Diving and pulling up close to the water. No waves, flat as a plate, depth 4'. Flight recorder recovered.

Here's my guess. Pilot error. As mentioned before, he was unable to recognize how low he was diving until it was too late. No booze, no drugs, just perception error.

Wow. Guys are touchy. Just because you are an amazing athlete and you have a shit ton of money aviation doesn’t give a shit. Best slider ever. Nastiest curve. Aerodynamics don’t care.

Aviation isn’t for the unprepared or complacent. It certainly is a Death wish if you aren’t respectful of the dangers.

Unfortunately, these accidents will be repeated "Ad Nauseum". Low level acrobatic flight kills experts and amateurs, alike.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Wow. Guys are touchy. Just because you are an amazing athlete and you have a shit ton of money aviation doesn’t give a shit. Best slider ever. Nastiest curve. Aerodynamics don’t care.

Aviation isn’t for the unprepared or complacent. It certainly is a Death wish if you aren’t respectful of the dangers.

Yup - and this aircraft just leads people down the primrose path of doing all the cool stuff before you are remotely ready (and even shit you shouldn't do without specific training).

Low altitude flight is no joke and the military drilled Mission crosscheck times into our heads - i.e., the amount of time the pilot can spend doing something other than flying the plane - like look inside at a gauge or pick your nose for a second. Or do military shit like drop bombs, etc.

At a certain point, when very low, the pilot can only fly the plane - 100% concentration must be paid to flying, not gawking at bikini clad wimmins on a boat, checking the fuel, or whatever. Even then you are testing your skills and death is less than a second away at all times.

Whether he departed the plane, or clipped the water with a wing, or just had a case of spatial disorientation, it was 99% likely a case of a inexperienced pilot flying a plane in a manner and flight regime he had no business being in (flight below 500'), aside from benign, wings level takeoffs and landings.

Watched an interview with his wife.
She BEGGED him not to buy it.
She KNEW he would ball it up in a crater.

Being a pilot is a discipline.
Not something you can be all ripshod with.
This is why we'll never have flying cars as the same people that go all stupid down the interstate with sport bikes will do the same thing with aircraft.

Yeah, I get a chuckle every time I see mention of 'flying cars'. Add that additional dimension and all hell would be breaking loose.

So often light aircraft accidents can be attributed to a handful of familiar refrains. This tragic accident is not much different from many previous ones.

I'm reminded of the old picture with the plane crashed into the lone tree in a field. That's the one about aviation being unforgiving when carelessness is present.

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
This is why we'll never have flying cars as the same people that go all stupid down the interstate with sport bikes will do the same thing with aircraft.

This is why we can't have flying things.

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity.