quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

So...because he retired, he cant take medications he was prescribed?

You guys aren't making sense.

Irrelevant.

Because he elected to pilot an aircraft, he can't take those medications, or more on point, because he took those medications, he was medically unfit, and his medical certification invalid, to act as pilot in command.

In addition to his medical condition invalidating his pilot privileges, his decision was carless and reckless, resulting in his death.

Retirement is irrelevant.

Ah, gotcha

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

quote:

Originally posted by JJexp:

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Ok, a lot of baseball pros take Adderall...with all that Adderall, he can't sleep, so he takes Ambien (Zolipedim).


Why the morphine?

Yeah, but he was retired. Since 2013.

So...because he retired, he cant take medications he was prescribed?

You guys aren't making sense.

He’s not a baseball player anymore, so trying to excuse his drug abuse by correlating it with his job doesn’t work as an excuse.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Because he elected to pilot an aircraft, he can't take those medications, or more on point, because he took those medications, he was medically unfit, and his medical certification invalid, to act as pilot in command.

You are correct in principle, but possibly wrong in detail.

Yes, he was medically unfit for flight if he took those medications. I agree.

As far as medical certification, you and I need first (you) or second (me) class medical certificates. A light sport pilot can self-certify, so there really is no "medical certification," at least not in the sense of an actual medical certificate, the way old-time pilots think about it.

My opinion is that this lets too many problems slip through the cracks. Yes, I am in favor of reducing bureaucratic bullshit, but allowing anybody with the bucks to buy one of these aircraft, to claim that s/he is medically fit to fly it, is (again, my opinion) going too far with the notion of reducing regulation.

There is a compromise somewhere. Maybe require medical certification, but overhaul the standards. Maybe for Light Sport, Recreational, and Private certificates, allow any physician to sign off on the certificate instead of requiring an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). Simplify the rules for medical certification of basic (non-revenue) type pilots to require only what is really necessary to be medically safe for this type of flying, and require the examining physician to sign a statement saying that s/he has read the rules and understands them.

Hmmm... I wonder what I would have to do, to get appointed as the FAA's administrator.

quote:

Hmmm... I wonder what I would have to do, to get appointed as the FAA's administrator.

Donate. Bigly.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

Hmmm... I wonder what I would have to do, to get appointed as the FAA's administrator.

Donate. Bigly.

I have two dollars and eighty-seven cents saved, so far. Is that enough?

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:... have two dollars and eighty-seven cents saved, so far. Is that enough?

Sure. Send it to me. I'll put in a good word for you!

That's what friends do.
Can't believe Art left you hanging like he did.

Sheesh! Have a constructive suggestion, go do some productive work, and get dimed out.

I'll call Donnie when I get back. See what I can do for you. Maybe have Mel put in a good word at the right time.

Friends, and all that...

Oy

Whole different set of requirements for revenue vs. non-revenue requirements. The rules need to realize this. My first act as Administrator, once Monkey and Artie get me appointed, ...

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

As far as medical certification, you and I need first (you) or second (me) class medical certificates. A light sport pilot can self-certify, so there really is no "medical certification," at least not in the sense of an actual medical certificate, the way old-time pilots think about it.

There is no medical certificate for those flying a light sport aircraft, or operating under basic med, but there are still medical standards, not the least of which prohibits operating an aircraft if one knowingly has a condition which impairs, makes unsafe, or would prohibit one from holding a medical certificate. Whether one is required to hold a medical certificate for employment, or must simply be fit for flight as a sport pilot, one still is medically disqualified and illegal, if flying in an unsafe condition, which Hallady was.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

My opinion is that this lets too many problems slip through the cracks. Yes, I am in favor of reducing bureaucratic bullshit, but allowing anybody with the bucks to buy one of these aircraft, to claim that s/he is medically fit to fly it, is (again, my opinion) going too far with the notion of reducing regulation.

I was very much against the recreational pilot certificate when it came out, as I am against the sport pilot certification. There is no value in dumbing down the requirements or making lower standards and minimums of what is already rock bottom with the private. As it is, most people can't make it in the minimum 40 hours; the national average is 70; there is no need to further decrease requirements, qualifications, and standards when a minimum level of proficiency can't be achieved by most with the private syllabus.

The same is true of medical standards, with is more than a big loophole.

It's a topic that can be discussed for days on end without coming close to covering all, even by laymen (of which, I am). I have known a few crewmembers who collapsed, from heart conditions to kidney stones, and one who died in the bathroom while prepping for a flight, and have had crew collapse in flight before. It's a serious thing, and should be taken seriously, among the healthiest of us all, let alone a drugged up ex sports player. I was medically incapacitated the night before a long international trip, some years ago. Had it happened a few hours later, I'd have been stuck in Nigeria, looking at surgery. Not a pretty thought.

I wholeheartedly agree that reform is needed in the medical certification arena. The direction it has taken, however, in my opinion, is no step forward.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
once Monkey and Artie get me appointed, ...

I have some constructive ideas on 121, and I'm willing to pay...

quote:

I'm willing to pay...

You are IN, brother! We love guys like you...

Maybe we could bring Sock Eating Golden on board, to overhaul Part 135, while we're at it.

We have some Air Traffic Controllers on board, too.

You know, I think we have most of the bases covered.

We have a couple attorneys who are pilots, to re-structure the regs.

I know that we have at least one doc, maybe more, to deal with medical certification.

What if the FAA were actually run by people who have been there, know what they are doing, and are more interested in getting the job done than they are in becoming symbols of authoritay!

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
There is a compromise somewhere. Maybe require medical certification, but overhaul the standards. Maybe for Light Sport, Recreational, and Private certificates, allow any physician to sign off on the certificate instead of requiring an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). Simplify the rules for medical certification of basic (non-revenue) type pilots to require only what is really necessary to be medically safe for this type of flying, and require the examining physician to sign a statement saying that s/he has read the rules and understands them.

We have that now with Basic Med. But Halladay had a first-class medical, which he wasn't eligible for, so not really relevant. Undoubtedly people lie to get medicals every day.

quote:

Originally posted by Dallas239:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
There is a compromise somewhere. Maybe require medical certification, but overhaul the standards. Maybe for Light Sport, Recreational, and Private certificates, allow any physician to sign off on the certificate instead of requiring an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). Simplify the rules for medical certification of basic (non-revenue) type pilots to require only what is really necessary to be medically safe for this type of flying, and require the examining physician to sign a statement saying that s/he has read the rules and understands them.

We have that now with Basic Med. But Halladay had a first-class medical, which he wasn't eligible for, so not really relevant. Undoubtedly people lie to get medicals every day.

I wonder why he would have a first class. That's only required for ATP. Kind of weird.

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I was very much against the recreational pilot certificate when it came out, as I am against the sport pilot certification.

But how are all those retired airline pilots who can't pass a medical anymore supposed to fly?

Some of those LSA are tailored to those guys, glass cockpits, instruments, the whole 9-yards.

For a day, VFR only certification...

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

I was very much against the recreational pilot certificate when it came out, as I am against the sport pilot certification.

But how are all those retired airline pilots who can't pass a medical anymore supposed to fly?

Some of those LSA are tailored to those guys, glass cockpits, instruments, the whole 9-yards.

For a day, VFR only certification...

There's more to LSA than the new production that you're referring to.

LSA includes airplanes like the old classic J-3 cub, and the Aeronca Champ.

My first flight training was in a Champ. No electrical system, hand-prop it to start the engine, no lights, so of course it was daytime-only, VFR. Sport pilot certification is certainly adequate for flying something like this on a sunny afternoon, from a grass runway, no place in particular to go except maybe that other airport fifteen or twenty miles away that has the diner with the BBQ pit out back and picnic tables in front. There are many different reasons for flying; some folks like the lazy afternoon stuff, others enjoy teaching an instrument trainee how to work in the ATC system, and how to deal safely with marginal weather. I like doing both.

If you lay the body of one killed in a B747 next to one killed in an F-18 next to one killed in a J-3, which one is more dead? How about the dead passenger? How about the dead and burned in the home below, or in the aircraft impacted by the sport pilot?

When the garden variety weekend warrior private pilot undertakes what the FAA mandates as 40 hours training, most take 70-80 hours to finish. Some much longer, a few less. The basic private pilot standards are really bare minimum and still insufficient, and they're not demanding at all. Bare minimum training. Bare minimum cross country. A taste of night. A hint of a taste of controlled airspace. Very little training, very little solo, and one has met the minimums for private pilot.

To dumb that down further, require less training, less experience, less knowledge, skill, experience, exposure...is not a good thing.

I'm a flight instructor; have been for several decades. I'm a ground instructor. I've got time in most of the general aviation airplane types out there, and I enjoy GA flying. I'm not against general aviation, training, or new pilots. Quite the contrary. I do have a very, very broad background in aviation and some very extensive experience not only in the training arena, but in nearly every facet of the industry, and I cannot see any benefit to decreasing the already pitifully small requirements for pilot training.

A few years ago a gentleman in a hangar where I was based bought an ultralight, or borderline ultralight. Not long after, he proudly pronounced that he'd been trained, and was good to go. I asked how much experience he had, and he told me nearly ten hours. I asked if he was about to solo. No, he said. Training is complete. He knew it all, didn't need any more. Wouldn't hear it, either. A few days later he wrapped his new pride and joy around a tree in a neighbor's yard. There is no benefit racing to the bottom. None.

I'm so very tired, exhausted really, from hearing "it's just a piper cub," or "it's just an ercoupe." After all, what could go wrong?

I've flown big airplanes, little airplanes, fast, slow, single, multi, jet, turboprop, piston, radial, gliders, yada, yada, and one needs to take that J-3 cub as seriously in training and operation as the 747, whether one is going for a private or an ATP or a type. Doesn't matter. Have fun. Enjoy. But be thorough, and take it seriously while having fun. It's a wonderful thing to fly, but it's also a lot of responsibility, and not just to self. I do a lot of different kinds of flying, and mix it up with all kinds of aircraft, all kinds of pilots, all kinds of environments. I work several jobs, and am heading for a new type training shortly.

Very recently (few days ago) I was involved in some test flying for equipment that's eventually headed for another planet, and during the descent at a very high rate, encountered a weekend warrior bumbling through an area he should not. Fortunately I had advance notice with a radar advisory and altered the flight path; due to the high rate of descent and the nature of what we were doing, it's very unlikely either aircraft would have seen each other. He might have been in a light sport aircraft, but the results would have been about the same no matter what he was in, had we collided. There's no value in dumbing down the training or making less the norm. None. Poor training and inexperience for one, affects all.

Same for medicals and certification or not. Fortunately Halladay didn't crash into a school or old folks complex and take more with him. But he easily could have, and he he could just as easily have been operating over land. Or hit a boat. He acted while impaired, and operated stupidly. In so doing, he put us all at risk.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sns3guppy,

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I'm so very tired, exhausted really, from hearing "it's just a piper cub," or "it's just an ercoupe." After all, what could go wrong?

The guy who checked me out in a J-3 said, "It's a cute little airplane, it'll just barely kill you if you aren't careful."

The pilot population is dwindling. Folks that worry about that kind of thing fear that "We need to do something to get more people into aviation." Heck, there are probably some bureaucrats that looked at the declining pilot numbers and thought, "Shoot if we don't do something to get more people in we'll be out of a job before long the way this is going."

I suspect that "dumbing down" things is not the best way to get there.

Then again, soon after I got my private pilot single engine land license I went along on a trip to ferry a Bamboo Bomber (Cessna T-50 or UC-78) to the new owner in Calgary Canada. The previous owner had dropped dead of a massive heart attack three days after renewing his first class medical.

Really no surprises here. On drugs and extremely poor judgement / airmanship.

https://www.theguardian.com/sp...baseball#maincontent

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Hall of famer Halladay performed stunts and was on drugs before fatal plane crash

Associated Press - Wed 15 Apr 2020 18.46 EDT

"Baseball Hall of Famer Roy Halladay had high-levels of amphetamines in his system and was performing stunts when he lost control of his plane and nosedived into Tampa Bay in November 2017, a National Transportation Safety Board report issued on Wednesday said. The crash killed Halladay.

Halladay had amphetamine levels about 10 times therapeutic levels in his blood along with a high level of morphine and an anti-depressant that can impair judgement as he performed high-pitch climbs and steep turns, sometimes within five feet of the water, the report says.

The maneuvers put loads of nearly two-times gravity on the plane, an Icon A5 Halladay had purchased a month earlier. On the last maneuver, Halladay entered a steep climb and his speed fell to about 85mph. The propeller-driven plane went into a nosedive and smashed into the water. The report says Halladay, who was 40, died of blunt force trauma and drowning. The report does not give a final reason for the crash. That is expected to be issued soon.

About a week before the crash, the former Toronto Blue Jays and Philadelphia Phillies star had flown the plane under Tampa Bay’s iconic Skyway Bridge, posting on social media, “flying the Icon A5 over the water is like flying a fighter jet!”

Halladay, an eight-time All-Star, pitched a perfect game and a playoff no-hitter in 2010. He played for the Blue Jays from 1998 to 2009 and for the Phillies from 2009-13. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame posthumously last year.

Halladay had taken off from a lake near his home about 15 minutes before the crash and a previous report says he was flying at about 105mph just 11 feet above the water before he started doing his maneuvers. He had about 700 hours of flight time after getting his pilot’s license in 2013, the previous report said, including 51 hours in Icon A5s with 14 in the plane that crashed.

Rolled out in 2014, the A5 is an amphibious aircraft with folding wings that can easily be towed on a trailer to a lake where it can take off from the water. The man who led the plane’s design, 55-year-old John Murray Karkow, died while flying an A5 over California’s Lake Berryessa in May 2017, a crash the NTSB attributed to pilot error.

Because of that crash, Icon issued guidance to its owners two weeks before Halladay’s accident saying that while low-altitude flying “can be one of the most rewarding and exciting types of flying,” it “comes with an inherent set of additional risks that require additional considerations.”

It added that traditional pilot training focused on high-altitude flying “does little to prepare pilots for the unique challenges of low altitude flying.” Icon told the NTSB that Halladay had received and reviewed the guidance. There is no indication in the report that Halladay received low-altitude training."