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Baroque Bloke
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
<snip>
You have to wonder how and why there are so many that continue to support the liberal agenda?
<snip>

Spend, spend, spend. Elect, elect, elect.
—Mayor Richard Daley



Serious about crackers.
 
Posts: 6924 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Buy that Classic SIG in All Stainless,
No rail wear will be painless.
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For those that aren't familiar with New York State handgun law regulation and administration, here is a quick lesson.
As a resident of upstate New York for more than 60 years, I see a lot of incorrect information in this thread. Let me see if I can help out.
The "Sullivan Act" became law in New York State in 1911. It's primary purpose was to deny immigrants and racial minorities the ability to legally own handguns.
This law is what regulates handguns in New York. It, and the "Safe Act," are part of the New York State Criminal Code.
The "Safe Act" became law in 2013 and further restricted weights of handguns, assault weapons, magazine capacity and other useless bullshit. Mostly dealing with semi-automatic firearms.
All the NY gun laws only affect the law abiding citizens, not the criminals.

The Sullivan Act, even though it's a NY State Law, distributes/delegates the "power" to the Counties for regulating and administering the handgun laws.
What is important here, in upstate NY, each County is it's own little Kingdom. Ruled by the local King, and in most upstate Counties, it's the County Judge.
Upstate NY is anywhere in the State except New York City and Long Island.
The Five Boroughs of New York City, (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island, and Queens) actually are Counties. Their handgun law system is regulated and administered by the NYPD.
The Five Boroughs are their own little Kingdom. A concealed carry license from upstate, or Long Island is not valid in the Five Boroughs, unless you are rich and/or famous. (but can be accomplished by some)
The two Counties on Long Island, (Nassau and Suffolk, but excluding the Five Boroughs) have their own systems, and this part I am not certain about, administered by the County Police Chief I believe?

So each County can regulate as they see fit. This is the reason for the upcoming Supreme Court case decision. One plaintiff is I believe, a resident of Rensselaer County, across the Hudson River from Albany.
The County Judge there requires that an applicant for a concealed carry license must show proper cause for needing one. A specific threat against the applicant had to be shown. He couldn't show one.
Desiring a concealed carry license for "general" self protection usage is not considered proper cause. Wanting to be a legal concealed carrying citizen does not show a specific threat.
So this is the reason for the Supreme Court Case, that the "showing proper cause" for issuance is discriminatory. It is certainly NOT identical in all New York Counties.
This discretionary power delegated to the Counties has been appealed up and down in the New York appellate courts many times and has been upheld.
I do hope that the Supreme Court tells New York State that the individual Counties discretionary "show cause" portion is unconstitutional.
New York State will NEVER give up handgun licensing. Never, Ever!
If you are not a criminal, domestic violence abuser, drug addict, alcoholic, mentally defective, or a terrorist, you should be able to get a concealed carry license.
The part of the law giving the discretionary power to add restrictions to the State Law by the issuing officer, usually a County Judge, (the having to show proper cause) is the part that likely is unconstitutional. We will see how it plays out...

To further complicate the handgun laws in New York, there are three different types of New York handgun licenses.
1. Premises. An example would be a Jeweler, wanting a handgun to protect their store from robberies. Can't take it home, can't go to the range, can't carry it.
2. Target Shooting and Hunting. Fairly self explanatory. Can't carry it for self defense.
3. Concealed Carry. It's actually labeled and described as "All Lawful Purposes."

Not speaking for the Five Boroughs or Long Island, in most of upstate New York it is relatively easy to get "Premises" and/or "Target Shooting and Hunting.'
Fill out the forms, fingerprints, pictures, character references. It will take at least a few months, sometimes up to a year. Sometimes longer when the "Powers That Be" are applying the brakes.
My former County of residence, after 50 years or longer having Draconian regulations, elected a County Judge that believed in the Right of Self Defense.
He isn't a gun owner, a shooter, or even a hunter or fisherman. But he did teach battered women in domestic violence shelters unarmed self defense in his spare time. (basically how to kick an abusers ass!)
He also was my Lawyer decades ago in some Family Law matters. After he was elected, in less than one year, he had a plan in place and operational for issuing Concealed Carry licenses.
His only stipulation was, and still is, write the Judge a letter telling him in a rational manner why you want the Concealed Carry License. Most people requesting Concealed Carry receive it.
No, telling the Judge in your letter that it was your "right" usually was ineffective. All he was asking for was a simple, rational letter that you had thought the process through.
He's a good guy and a good Judge. BTW, my former County of residence has a population of about 200,000 people. So a LOT of Concealed Carry licenses are being issued now.
They needed to hire extra paper pushing staff at the local County Sheriff's Office, their ID Division handles the paperwork side of handgun licensing in that County.

I moved to a different County in 2017, considerably more rural. Less than 50,000 County residents. Here in my present County, the pistol licensing is handled by the County Clerk's Office.
I walked in with my concealed carry license from my former County, and was out the door in less than half an hour with my new concealed carry license.
No fuss, no bother, no hoops to jump through.
They sometimes grimace when I show up, for example, adding a SIG P226 with multi-caliber capability. 9mm, .40, .357 SIG makes them scratch their heads sometimes.
Or adding a .50 caliber muzzleloader pistol barrel to an existing T/C Encore handgun.
But generally, they are polite & effective paper pushers willing to help.

Here is an example of the abuse of this misguided system. As a teenager, my Dad applied for a concealed carry license in my former County of residence. He was denied.
He owned his own business, traveled with expensive equipment, but that didn't matter. He wasn't a Politician, or a Doctor, or a Pharmacist. And he wasn't one of the Politically or Socially Elite.
Just a regular upstanding guy trying to look out for himself and his family.
He even hired the premier Law Office in town to assist. Nope, not gonna happen. (back then)
At that time, (late 60's early 70's) if you had five handguns on your pistol license and wanted to purchase another, you had to sell one first.
The local Pistol License Clerk made arbitrary decisions, likely at the request of the County Judge.

Every County is different, some make it easy, and some are just plain rotten miserable bastards.
Every handgun you own is listed on your NY pistol license. Make, Model, Revolver/Semi-Auto/Single shot/whatever, serial number and caliber.
If it's on your pistol license and you have concealed carry, you can carry it.
.500 S & W revolver, .44 Desert Eagle (lightweight aluminum frame DE, standard steel frame DE exceeded "Safe Act" weight limit), .44 revolver, anything you want.
You can carry as many handguns as you are physically capable of carrying.

My former County of residence used a "paper" license. They would type in the new information when you bought something new. They used whiteout when you sold or traded something.
The paper licenses are fairly fragile. They get dogeared and tattered easily. But didn't bulk up your wallet.

My new County of residence uses plastic credit card type pistol licenses. Buy, sell or trade, and you get a new card. $3 for a pistol license amendment, up to three items added/removed for the $3 charge.
The new plastic credit card type of pistol licenses do have one drawback. Bulks up the wallet.

Me personally, I don't believe the upcoming Supreme Court case will have any affect in my County. They already do the right things.
However, that can and does change when the County Judge changes. Newly elected, retirement. A new Judge gets to decide how they want to regulate/administer handgun law in the County.

I'm much more interested in the upcoming Supreme Court case regarding the State of California and magazine capacity. I would love to see the 10 round bullshit struck down.
The "Safe Act" (2013) here in New York banned previously legal Pre-Ban (1994 Federal Ban) high capacity magazines. Days prior to it taking affect, I was faced with some choices.

1. Sell all my hi-caps through an FFL for out of state sales.
2. Turn them all in to law enforcement for alleged destruction. Likely the LEO's just keep them...
3. Move them all out of the State. I was across the State border in just over an hour. I would like to retrieve them someday.

I moved them all out of the State in case I ever leave here and go to a free State.

I do like living here in rural upstate NY. It's a wild and beautiful place. How many of you routinely see Bears and Fishers?
I have my home and recreational property here. My children and grandchildren are here. My GF works here.
We ride the Harley routinely in the warm seasons. We can be in the Catskill Mountains, the Finger Lakes, the Adirondacks, Vermont, Pennsylvania in a few hours of riding.
I just wish we could flush the toilet with the politicians and the taxes. However a good accountant and retirement helps with the taxes...

I hope I was able to make the non-New York residents on this fine Forum understand some of the peculiar idiosyncrasies of New York State handgun laws!



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Posts: 1220 | Registered: December 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Veteran of the
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Very informative, thanks for posting this.


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Posts: 1232 | Location: The end of the Earth... | Registered: March 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Waiting for Hachiko
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Originally posted by mo4040:
Very informative, thanks for posting this.


I second that. In Virginia, if I remember correctly, we had to list the type of weapon we wanted to carry concealed..knife, handgun, long gun.

No listing of specific guns. I've had a CCW since 1990, I had to go before a judge for mine.

At the time, I was doing car restoration work, visiting junk yards with cash.

NJ is probably more restrictive than NY.


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Posts: 6541 | Location: Near the Metropolis of Tightsqueeze, Va | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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cee_Kamp -

I first moved to Oneida County back in the 80s.
If I remember correctly, you had to apply with the Chief of Police, have a good reason, have three character references, pay $250, and then wait usually about a year to find out if you were approved.

I remember thinking how silly that was when back home here we could just walk into a store, buy a pistol, and walk out with it on our hip.

Several of us had pistols back then and just kept our mouths shut.


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Posts: 17529 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Buy that Classic SIG in All Stainless,
No rail wear will be painless.
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Gustofer,

Remember here in NY, all your handguns are listed by make, model, type, caliber, and serial number. It's on your license.
If you have say, 50 handguns, every single one is listed. That's also a lot of plastic credit card type pistol license pages.

I was on a early spring black bear scouting trip in the Adirondacks with friends and family many years ago.
We were looking for bears/tracks/den sites for the fall black bear northern zone hunting season.

We casually interacted with a Environmental Conservation Officer (game warden) in a remote trailhead parking lot, and he found it highly suspicious that we were scouting ~ five months in advance.
If you do much bear hunting, bears will reuse a good den location for many years. In the very early spring (snow still on the ground in places), there isn't much vegetation and the dens are much easier to locate. So in the fall, you would set up on a bear trail leading to a den.
It was actually a good plan.

The ECO asked us if we were armed, we were. So he asked for pistol licenses and checked serial numbers.
My buddy couldn't find on his license the data for the revolver he was carrying. It got a bit "tense" for a while. He did eventually locate the information. (many paper pages on his license)

I will routinely empty the safe and personally check the serial numbers against my concealed carry license, and my database.
That Adirondacks scouting trip event was a learning experience for me.

Also, whenever I do an amendment to my license, I DO look closely for typos.
Better to head off a potential problem, by making sure it never happens, by doing your due diligence beforehand.



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Posts: 1220 | Registered: December 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Eric Adams at the 2022 Met Gala. Yeah, we're supposed to take this jackass seriously when he talks about guns and the crime in his city.


Good lord. A man's clothing may hide, or identify the type of person he is. This ass clown isn't hiding anything. What an asshole to wear shit like that. He's obviously more interested in PR than substance wearing a clown suit. Oops, I'm stating the obvious again, apologies.




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Posts: 7473 | Location: Nowhere the constitution is not honored | Registered: February 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Non-Miscreant
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A while back, at least 10 or so years, a member here contacted me. He was traveling from the north east down toward Texas. He wanted to "bring along his handgun and was checking in each state he would travel through.

So he contacted me as being in one of the states he'd be passing though. I told him it wasn't a problem, but he could call the state police to get confirmation. So he did. The cop on the desk was a bit confused at the question. He told the guy everyone here carries and its just not a problem. Restrictive states just don't understand.

Some cities are pretty commie. They've been democratic strong holds for years and have the population pretty much brainwashed.

The reason many of us aren't educated on NY laws is because we have no interest in moving there or even visiting. Its taken us a long time to get our laws where we want them. Others don't understand our feelings, but we don't really care.


Unhappy ammo seeker
 
Posts: 18107 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: February 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Eric Adams at the 2022 Met Gala. Yeah, we're supposed to take this jackass seriously when he talks about guns and the crime in his city.


Good lord. A man's clothing may hide, or identify the type of person he is. This ass clown isn't hiding anything. What an asshole to wear shit like that. He's obviously more interested in PR than substance wearing a clown suit. Oops, I'm stating the obvious again, apologies.


I get the flaming... but in fairness... you CAN be pro gun ownership/usage and also against gun violence. I'm pretty sure EVERY MEMBER OF THIS FORUM is against senseless violence.





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Posts: 33006 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No....in fairness the line through the gun means no guns. I'm pretty sure EVERY MEMBER OF THIS FORUM is not for that.
 
Posts: 6094 | Location: Northwest Indiana | Registered: August 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is no such thing as "gun violence". It's a marketing ploy.


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Posts: 16005 | Location: Cross Lanes, WV | Registered: February 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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quote:
Originally posted by AllenInWV:
There is no such thing as "gun violence". It's a marketing ploy.

Yup. Violence is violence. The .gov focuses on “gun violence” because it’s a hell of a lot harder defending yourself from tyranny without them. Just look at all the countries that have restricted or banned firearms; they do pretty much as they please to their citizens.




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Posts: 13712 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Most of us are against violence, except in defense of self or others.

The government and media gas-lighting crimes committed using guns specifically is simply the propaganda department repeating a lie enough the uneducated populace will accept "guns are bad" as truth.

By uneducated, I mean the public who haven't experienced a gun safety course, actually using guns and haven't been told the other side of the coin: that guns are used defensively to prevent crimes millions of times annually, including rapes, murders, and robberies.

A Supreme Court decision to invalidate this requirement will be a good basis for tossing similar cases across the country. Other rights don't require a demonstration of proof or justification in order to be allowed to exercise said rights.


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Posts: 7611 | Location: Mid-Michigan, USA | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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cee_Kamp, don’t take this the wrong way.

I get liking upstate NY.

But the laws you describe are a LONG way from acceptable, but under RTKBA, and just plain due process.
 
Posts: 4743 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rburg:
The reason many of us aren't educated on NY laws is because we have no interest in moving there or even visiting. Its taken us a long time to get our laws where we want them. Others don't understand our feelings, but we don't really care.


Bingo. I left New York to escape the economy and the shitty gun laws. All I need to know is they’ve gotten worse since I left, not better, on both accounts where I lived. I wouldn’t tolerate the gun stuff for any reason. Hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, the pretty landscape and the seasons - none of that makes up for it. Not for me.


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