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I stuck the lithium example in there casually and without any real thought or research. I think we have a problem, or will have a problem, with lithium battery disposal if we continue to rely on this technology. But, there is always possibility that we can find and mine dilithium crystals on other planets.  EDIT TO ADD: I have no idea what we have spent at NASA over the last 53 years of simply orbiting the planet and "doing experiments". And I don't know how much good has been accomplished in that time, but I am fairly confident that doing the same thing, over and over, for over half a century, has largely been a waste of time and taxpayer money. . | |||
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Member |
Well, we got Tang.  _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| Member |
I get the “we have to explore, it’s our nature” element. I even agree with it. I just struggle with 2 threads over we are discussing a ballooning federal debt and the possibilities of that negative impact. I always hear the resources portion but bringing back tons of ore back from Mars is never going to work. Of course if they find dilithium crystals or Kyber crystals I will walk all of that back. Humans have explored for all of humanity. Usually there is the thought of a reward at the end. Resources, shorter travel routes, gold, something. I am just curious beyond “exploration” what is the actual gain? Once again, what they accomplished is amazing. I want to hear our govt provide a concrete accounting or at least a concrete wish list of what we can expect for buying a Moon base. lol | |||
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| Looking at life thru a windshield  |
So happy to see they made it back safely, was talking to my brother-in-law in Bremen, Germany and he mentioned you know we made part of that. I asked what are you talking about, apparently the European Service Module, power, propulsion, and life support were made in Bremen by the European Space Agency. On budget and on time according to him, he said they have already completed the ESM's for the next 2-3 missions. | |||
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Raptorman |
LOL Cry harder. Be a defeatist because you aren't profiting and someone else is. Or are you on China's side? That MUST be it. Ok, I will break this down for you really simple, since that's how you need it. Moonbase = launching point for Mars. Moonbase = mining Helium 3. America's dominance with fusion energy. Cry somewhere else. ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
That's the last of it. There is to be no more bickering in this thread. | |||
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Shaman |
Become a stepping stone for Earth becoming a space fering society. And the cost? What will it cost if we don't build a base there first. Imagine the Chinese building there first. Then placing a missile system on the moon. Consider me optimistic.  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I wasn't alive for the Apollo program, but I remember being fascinated by it as a kid. Somebody gave me a training manual for the Shuttle, and I read that thing cover to cover. And I remember being devastated by the Columbia crash, and the embarrassment of the US being dependent on the Russians for space transport after we retired the Shuttle with no replacement. There's just something about exploration that excites me. The idea of sailing with Columbus, going west with Lewis and Clark, taking the Oregon trail, or homesteading in Alaska. I don't think people really understood all of the financial outcomes of any of those endeavors when they undertook them, but they were all very worthwhile in the end. Apollo was exciting. Some of that excitement got lost in the last fifty years as we stopped pushing the limits and focused on more "practical" orbital endeavors closer to home. I'm glad to see us starting to push the limits again. I don't know what all the long-term benefits will be, but I'm confident they will eventually be realized. I'm also really enjoying seeing my kids get to experience that excitement and optimism. The world they're growing up in is overall a much darker place than mine was at their age, and it's great to see us doing something big and positive as a country, and in cooperation with others. ----------------------------------------------------------- Any comments made by this poster are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of my employer. | |||
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Member |
Watched an interesting discussion on why go to the moon. The composition of the moon is the same as that of the earth since it was once part of the earth. So it has the same rare earth elements that are often in the news. Also, the astroid belt has almost anything one could want to mine. So lots of economic reasons in addition to our inate desire to find "what is out there." "The world is too dangerous to live in-not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen." (Albert Einstein) | |||
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Charmingly unsophisticated |
Regarding the lengthy recovery routine.... I wonder why they don't have a couple of specialized boats, like say a small version of those dry dock ships, for this sorta thing? _______________________________ The artist formerly known as AllenInWV | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
After a bit of research, I do feel slightly better about the complex crew recovery. Apparently, those red/orange suits are have both flotation and insulation to protect the astronaut in the event of a dunking, and to keep them warm if the water is cold. At least they would not be in immediate danger of drowning if they fell in getting from capsule to porch, or when slung up to the helicopter. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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| The success of a solution usually depends upon your point of view |
They do. It was the LPD they landed the helos on. It has a well deck that can be flooded and opened to launch and recover boats and such. They could have towed the capsule into the well deck, drained it, and gotten them out in a safe and dry environment. “We truly live in a wondrous age of stupid.” - 83v45magna "I think it's important that people understand free speech doesn't mean free from consequences societally or politically or culturally." -Pranjit Kalita, founder and CIO of Birkoa Capital Management | |||
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| Charmingly unsophisticated |
No no no....that's not what I'm talking about. I'm on my phone and can't figure out how to post a pic, but there are ships that like semi-submerge a part of the deck so another ship can be floated over and secured, then that deck is raised. Ah, found the ship...MV Mighty Servant 2, brought the frigate Samuel Roberts back after it hit an Iranian mine. Obviously much smaller, that could go into the LPD's well deck. I suspect towing that capsule in open waters is easier said than done. _______________________________ The artist formerly known as AllenInWV | |||
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| Shaman |
It’s called a well deck. Makes it where they don’t have to cable winch it up. He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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| Charmingly unsophisticated |
Respectfully, I've seen pics/videos of an LPD's well deck. Thats not what I'm trying to get at. I'm thinking something like this.....  But on a much smaller scale. Like pontoon boat on steroids. Man, I hate using my phone for anything. Gimme a few to figure this out.This message has been edited. Last edited by: AllenInAR, _______________________________ The artist formerly known as AllenInWV | |||
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| Member |
That still requires a fair amount of time besides the capsule, which was towed/pulled into the LPD's well deck, then positioned to settle onto a cradle after the water was drained-out. I hear what you're saying, as the process of recovery seemed much more complicated than it needed to be. | |||
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| Partial dichotomy |
Allen, I believe you're referring to a floating dry dock. Still, as others have said, the ship they used had all the ability to do the same thing. SIGforum: For all your needs! Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>  | |||
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Optimistic Cynic |
Are you implying that Marzy is a Martian mole? Shot here by a giant cannon back in 1906? I'd guess he'd probably pick a different user name if he wanted to remain sub rosa. But, if so, can I get a ride in one of those three-legged Martian walkers? We could be sending some of those to Iran to lase up the countryside! And, Marzy, congratulations for overcoming those nasty bacterial infections that took your fellows. We are happy to have you with us. | |||
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| Charmingly unsophisticated |
IIRC, the LPD was 5-6 miles away from the splashdown site. The RHIBs and Zodiacs closer. I'd have like a couple of RHIBs w. rescue divers, and my SuperPontoonBoat (SPB) with them. As soon as the capsule landed, the RHIBs do their...whatever they were checking (something about toxic gases?) and whatever safety checks are needed, then the SPB backs in like a forklift, (it has.. I dunno...some sort of netting between the pontoons than can be lowered in the water, under the capsule, then pulled taut, lifting the capsule up out of the water). Crew gets checked while the SPB heads back to the LPD. Of course that means no cool dismounting of the helis, etc etc. LOL _______________________________ The artist formerly known as AllenInWV | |||
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| Member |
Good insight in this special article by USNI. ‘Integrity, Arriving’: How a Navy Crew Recovered Four NASA Astronauts and their Ship After a Historic Lunar Mission
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