Originally posted by pedropcola: The minerals argument is interesting. Lithium ain’t light and we need a bunch of it....
I stuck the lithium example in there casually and without any real thought or research. I think we have a problem, or will have a problem, with lithium battery disposal if we continue to rely on this technology.
But, there is always possibility that we can find and mine dilithium crystals on other planets.
EDIT TO ADD: I have no idea what we have spent at NASA over the last 53 years of simply orbiting the planet and "doing experiments". And I don't know how much good has been accomplished in that time, but I am fairly confident that doing the same thing, over and over, for over half a century, has largely been a waste of time and taxpayer money.
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April 11, 2026, 02:35 PM
229DAK
Well, we got Tang.
_________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902
April 11, 2026, 03:49 PM
pedropcola
I get the “we have to explore, it’s our nature” element. I even agree with it. I just struggle with 2 threads over we are discussing a ballooning federal debt and the possibilities of that negative impact.
I always hear the resources portion but bringing back tons of ore back from Mars is never going to work. Of course if they find dilithium crystals or Kyber crystals I will walk all of that back.
Humans have explored for all of humanity. Usually there is the thought of a reward at the end. Resources, shorter travel routes, gold, something. I am just curious beyond “exploration” what is the actual gain?
Once again, what they accomplished is amazing. I want to hear our govt provide a concrete accounting or at least a concrete wish list of what we can expect for buying a Moon base. lol
April 11, 2026, 05:08 PM
fischtown7
So happy to see they made it back safely, was talking to my brother-in-law in Bremen, Germany and he mentioned you know we made part of that. I asked what are you talking about, apparently the European Service Module, power, propulsion, and life support were made in Bremen by the European Space Agency. On budget and on time according to him, he said they have already completed the ESM's for the next 2-3 missions.
April 11, 2026, 06:32 PM
Mars_Attacks
quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
quote:
Originally posted by Mars_Attacks: We are going to establish a moon base under Trump.
And the moon base will do exactly what for the US and how much will it cost? Can NASA stay on budget? Can NASA stay on schedule? NO and NO would be the correct answers. Are you drinking Mars? We're going to have a moon base in the next 2 1/2 years? Well of course we will.
LOL Cry harder. Be a defeatist because you aren't profiting and someone else is. Or are you on China's side? That MUST be it.
Ok, I will break this down for you really simple, since that's how you need it.
Moonbase = launching point for Mars.
Moonbase = mining Helium 3. America's dominance with fusion energy.
Cry somewhere else.
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April 11, 2026, 06:42 PM
parabellum
That's the last of it. There is to be no more bickering in this thread.
April 11, 2026, 06:45 PM
ScreamingCockatoo
quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
And the moon base will do exactly what for the US and how much will it cost?
Become a stepping stone for Earth becoming a space fering society.
And the cost? What will it cost if we don't build a base there first. Imagine the Chinese building there first. Then placing a missile system on the moon.
Consider me optimistic.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
April 11, 2026, 08:13 PM
92fstech
I wasn't alive for the Apollo program, but I remember being fascinated by it as a kid. Somebody gave me a training manual for the Shuttle, and I read that thing cover to cover. And I remember being devastated by the Columbia crash, and the embarrassment of the US being dependent on the Russians for space transport after we retired the Shuttle with no replacement.
There's just something about exploration that excites me. The idea of sailing with Columbus, going west with Lewis and Clark, taking the Oregon trail, or homesteading in Alaska. I don't think people really understood all of the financial outcomes of any of those endeavors when they undertook them, but they were all very worthwhile in the end.
Apollo was exciting. Some of that excitement got lost in the last fifty years as we stopped pushing the limits and focused on more "practical" orbital endeavors closer to home. I'm glad to see us starting to push the limits again. I don't know what all the long-term benefits will be, but I'm confident they will eventually be realized.
I'm also really enjoying seeing my kids get to experience that excitement and optimism. The world they're growing up in is overall a much darker place than mine was at their age, and it's great to see us doing something big and positive as a country, and in cooperation with others.
Any comments made by this poster are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of my employer.
April 12, 2026, 07:22 AM
Ranger41
Watched an interesting discussion on why go to the moon. The composition of the moon is the same as that of the earth since it was once part of the earth. So it has the same rare earth elements that are often in the news. Also, the astroid belt has almost anything one could want to mine. So lots of economic reasons in addition to our inate desire to find "what is out there."
"The world is too dangerous to live in-not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen." (Albert Einstein)
April 12, 2026, 10:33 AM
AllenInAR
Regarding the lengthy recovery routine....
I wonder why they don't have a couple of specialized boats, like say a small version of those dry dock ships, for this sorta thing?
_______________________________
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April 12, 2026, 12:04 PM
ArtieS
After a bit of research, I do feel slightly better about the complex crew recovery.
Apparently, those red/orange suits are have both flotation and insulation to protect the astronaut in the event of a dunking, and to keep them warm if the water is cold. At least they would not be in immediate danger of drowning if they fell in getting from capsule to porch, or when slung up to the helicopter.
"I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation."
Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II.
April 12, 2026, 02:53 PM
SpinZone
quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR: Regarding the lengthy recovery routine....
I wonder why they don't have a couple of specialized boats, like say a small version of those dry dock ships, for this sorta thing?
They do. It was the LPD they landed the helos on. It has a well deck that can be flooded and opened to launch and recover boats and such. They could have towed the capsule into the well deck, drained it, and gotten them out in a safe and dry environment.
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April 12, 2026, 07:50 PM
AllenInAR
quote:
Originally posted by SpinZone:
quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR: Regarding the lengthy recovery routine....
I wonder why they don't have a couple of specialized boats, like say a small version of those dry dock ships, for this sorta thing?
They do. It was the LPD they landed the helos on.
No no no....that's not what I'm talking about. I'm on my phone and can't figure out how to post a pic, but there are ships that like semi-submerge a part of the deck so another ship can be floated over and secured, then that deck is raised. Ah, found the ship...MV Mighty Servant 2, brought the frigate Samuel Roberts back after it hit an Iranian mine.
Obviously much smaller, that could go into the LPD's well deck.
I suspect towing that capsule in open waters is easier said than done.
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April 13, 2026, 05:20 AM
ScreamingCockatoo
It’s called a well deck. Makes it where they don’t have to cable winch it up.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
April 13, 2026, 10:12 AM
AllenInAR
Respectfully, I've seen pics/videos of an LPD's well deck. Thats not what I'm trying to get at. I'm thinking something like this.....
But on a much smaller scale. Like pontoon boat on steroids.
Man, I hate using my phone for anything. Gimme a few to figure this out.This message has been edited. Last edited by: AllenInAR,
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April 13, 2026, 10:14 AM
corsair
quote:
Originally posted by AllenInAR: ...but there are ships that like semi-submerge a part of the deck so another ship can be floated over and secured, then that deck is raised. Ah, found the ship...MV Mighty Servant 2, brought the frigate Samuel Roberts back after it hit an Iranian mine.
Obviously much smaller, that could go into the LPD's well deck.
I suspect towing that capsule in open waters is easier said than done.
That still requires a fair amount of time besides the capsule, which was towed/pulled into the LPD's well deck, then positioned to settle onto a cradle after the water was drained-out. I hear what you're saying, as the process of recovery seemed much more complicated than it needed to be.
April 13, 2026, 11:13 AM
6guns
Allen, I believe you're referring to a floating dry dock.
Still, as others have said, the ship they used had all the ability to do the same thing.
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April 13, 2026, 11:20 AM
architect
quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola: I think he meant all these moon missions are a precursor to Mars missions. Mars Attacks. lol
Are you implying that Marzy is a Martian mole? Shot here by a giant cannon back in 1906? I'd guess he'd probably pick a different user name if he wanted to remain sub rosa.
But, if so, can I get a ride in one of those three-legged Martian walkers? We could be sending some of those to Iran to lase up the countryside!
And, Marzy, congratulations for overcoming those nasty bacterial infections that took your fellows. We are happy to have you with us.
April 13, 2026, 08:54 PM
AllenInAR
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns: Allen, I believe you're referring to a floating dry dock.
Still, as others have said, the ship they used had all the ability to do the same thing.
IIRC, the LPD was 5-6 miles away from the splashdown site. The RHIBs and Zodiacs closer. I'd have like a couple of RHIBs w. rescue divers, and my SuperPontoonBoat (SPB) with them. As soon as the capsule landed, the RHIBs do their...whatever they were checking (something about toxic gases?) and whatever safety checks are needed, then the SPB backs in like a forklift, (it has.. I dunno...some sort of netting between the pontoons than can be lowered in the water, under the capsule, then pulled taut, lifting the capsule up out of the water). Crew gets checked while the SPB heads back to the LPD.
Of course that means no cool dismounting of the helis, etc etc. LOL
A boom across the Pacific near San Diego late Friday afternoon signaled the Orion capsule’s return to Earth’s atmosphere. The shock wave also summoned sailors tasked with safely returning the four astronauts following their 10-day lunar flight. It was time to go to work.
From a small inflatable boat, Navy Chief Hospital Corpsman Vlad Link listened to radio traffic and tracked the Orion capsule named Integrity as it made its return trip. After blasting through the atmosphere at close to 35 times the speed of sound, Integrity drifted down on parachutes. The capsule splashed into the ocean at 5:07 p.m. Pacific local time to waiting teams of Navy corpsmen, doctors and divers.
“We heard the sonic boom. That was unreal,” Link, a dive independent duty corpsman with San Diego-based Explosive Ordnance Disposal Group 1, told USNI Saturday afternoon at Naval Base San Diego’s Pier 8, where amphibious transport dock ship USS John P. Murtha (LPD-26) had pulled in with Integrity in its well deck.
With NASA’s approval, a fleet of small craft carrying several dozen Navy and NASA recovery and medical personnel sprang into action as Murtha — Artemis II’s recovery ship and at-sea base for the joint mission — sailed about a mile away. Its mission: Stabilize the capsule, open the hatch, assess the astronauts, get them on a raft and hoist them up and then fly back to ship.
“As soon as we heard that sonic boom and saw it come in, it was like, ‘all right,’” said Navy Diver Chief Chase McCain with EOD Mobile Unit 11’s Mobile Diving Salvage Company 11-8.
.....
As the mission commander Wiseman’s helicopter touched down, Murtha’s 1MC crackled to life with the traditional greeting for a visiting commander by naming their vessel.
“Ding-ding, ding-ding,” the ship’s bell rang out over the intercom. “Integrity arriving.”
....
“Navy helicopters have been picking up astronauts out of NASA capsules since the very beginning,” said Cmdr. Kevin Ringelstein, HSC-23’s commander. “With our helicopters, we’re very versatile, and we can pick up astronauts day, night, in the wind, in the rain, in the snow. We’ll go get them.”
While conditions were good this time, “It’s not always going to be like that,” said Cmdr. Matt Bidlack, the officer-in-charge of Fleet Surgical Team 1, a 48-member medical group aboard Murtha that joined NASA’s aeromedical team for the recovery mission.
“We can’t predict what the weather’s going to be… It might be choppy seas, it might be rainy. Hoisting is the safest for all weather conditions because in the small boats, in the heavy seas, with astronauts that are just traveling through space, they’re going to feel the effects of gravity. They’re going to feel magnetic equilibrium, they’re going to be space-sick, and now you’re making them sea-sick on top of that,” he said. “Hoisting them is the quickest, fastest, most effective, and most efficient way to get them to the medical care that they need.”
