Another case for body cams, and having them turned on.

I've been in a number of automotive incidents with a video camera on and many details I was sure I could recall, are recalled by the camera differently.

We really do need to take a deep breath (on both sides) and wait on some actual evidence before saying that someone is wrong here.

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We really do need to take a deep breath (on both sides) and wait on some actual evidence before saying that someone is wrong here.

Seeing they were at the incorrect address there's only one side in the wrong. Were it not for that error, all of the other actions leading up to the shooting would have never existed.

There has to be a way to hold police accountable for mistakes. Even if it was an honest one a man was killed because of it and that should not be ignored.

What is worse to me is victim blaming. It is his fault for pointing a gun at police? What if he didn't know they were the police? Or what if he didn't even point a gun at them? Maybe it was a Wii Remote.

Cops have a shitty job and sometimes they have to shoot people. When someone needs shot I am fine with it. But this guy didn't need to be shot because he wasn't doing anything wrong. Whatever lead these cops to the wrong house needs to be addressed and the person responsible for the mistake needs to be held accountable. Hearing that some of you guys go to the wrong house with the frequency that you do is disturbing.

There must be a reason for it, and hopefully someone can enlighten me, but why can't the police serve the arrest warrant after the person has left his home? Why do they rush into the unknown?

Can't they wait until the suspect is walking up to his car in the morning and quickly swoop in and arrest him before he knows what's happening? There must be a reason why they don't do this.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
There must be a reason for it, and hopefully someone can enlighten me, but why can't the police serve the arrest warrant after the person has left his home? Why do they rush into the unknown?

Can't they wait until the suspect is walking up to his car in the morning and quickly swoop in and arrest him before he knows what's happening? There must be a reason why they don't do this.

You might know where the suspect is now, but tips get stale and unless you are the Feds (and then, not all the time) your agency may not have the resources to put a 24hr tail on someone.

If you don't get him now, and you don't have enough manpower to follow him around for the next 8-24 hours waiting for an optimal situation to develop, what do you do?

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Originally posted by LDD:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
There must be a reason for it, and hopefully someone can enlighten me, but why can't the police serve the arrest warrant after the person has left his home? Why do they rush into the unknown?

Can't they wait until the suspect is walking up to his car in the morning and quickly swoop in and arrest him before he knows what's happening? There must be a reason why they don't do this.

You might know where the suspect is now, but tips get stale and unless you are the Feds (and then, not all the time) your agency may not have the resources to put a 24hr tail on someone.

If you don't get him now, and you don't have enough manpower to follow him around for the next 8-24 hours waiting for an optimal situation to develop, what do you do?

It is very common, very very common, to serve arrest warrants by knocking on someone's front door and asking to speak with them, telling them you have a warrant for their arrest and ask them to come with you willingly. The vast majority of people cooperate with an arrest warrant. The vast majority of people cooperate with any type of arrest, for that matter.

It is also very common to go to a next door neighbor's house and ask them when the person comes home, what kind of car they drive, if they actually live there, Etc. So saying that these officers were there by mistake may not be accurate either. They might have been there on purpose trying to elicit information to make the actual service be safer.

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Originally posted by chongosuerte:
The article says the officers were serving an arrest warrant. This is a night and day difference from serving a search warrant that has been researched, mapped, included with a photograph and all known inhabitants, approved by a supervisor, sometimes several, and signed off by a magistrate or judge.

Serving an arrest warrant is an every-day thing.

That article was not complete. They had a search warrant and an arrest warrant.

The local news station obtained a copy of the search warrant:

http://www.wftv.com/news/trend...wrong-home/571799421

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It is very common, very very common, to serve arrest warrants by knocking on someone's front door and asking to speak with them

How common is it to look at the numbers right next to the door to make sure you're at the right address?

It has been speculated by some in this thread that in trailer parks especially, having the wrong location is an easy error.

Here's the Pearman residence, that the man being sought lived in. Notice any other clues to who lives there in addition to the obvious address?

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Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

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Originally posted by chongosuerte:
The article says the officers were serving an arrest warrant. This is a night and day difference from serving a search warrant that has been researched, mapped, included with a photograph and all known inhabitants, approved by a supervisor, sometimes several, and signed off by a magistrate or judge.

Serving an arrest warrant is an every-day thing.

That article was not complete. They had a search warrant and an arrest warrant.

The local news station obtained a copy of the search warrant:

http://www.wftv.com/news/trend...wrong-home/571799421

That is not what the article says.

The article says they were there serving an arrest warrant, and shows an arrest warrant.

The search warrant they referred to sounds like it was the search warrant for the scene of the shooting after. When there is a shooting, officers or Detectives still have to get a search warrant for that scene to investigate. They cannot enter and seized evidence just because it was a shooting or murder.

There is no mention of them serving a search warrant during the shooting. In addition, in my experience the search warrant would not have been normal when arresting someone for a domestic assault.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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It is very common, very very common, to serve arrest warrants by knocking on someone's front door and asking to speak with them

How common is it to look at the numbers right next to the door to make sure you're at the right address?

It has been speculated by some in this thread that in trailer parks especially, having the wrong location is an easy error.

Here's the house:

It's about as common as checking with a house across the street to see if they have any idea when their neighbor with a warrant comes and goes, and leaving your contact information with them so they can let you know when he shows back up.


There is much knee jerk speculation as to the officer making mistakes. I'm not saying they didn't, but I am pointing out that there are more than enough reasons for them to have legally been where they were, and it not to have been a mistake. The rush to judgment is personally insulting. This could be me any day of the week.


"No cars in the driveway, I knocked on the door nobody's answering. How about we check with the neighbor across the street and see if he will let us know when they show back up. Or when they normally come home, and what they drive?"

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It's about as common as checking with a house across the street to see if they have any idea when their neighbor with a warrant comes and goes, and leaving your contact information with them so they can let you know when he shows back up.

Which isn't a factor here now that we know that they had a search warrant. No need to ask the neighbors anything, as they had legal authority to let themselves in.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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It's about as common as checking with a house across the street to see if they have any idea when their neighbor with a warrant comes and goes, and leaving your contact information with them so they can let you know when he shows back up.

Which isn't a factor here now that we know that they had a search warrant. No need to ask the neighbors anything, as they had legal authority to let themselves in.

What search warrant? Did you read the article. There is no mention that the deputies were serving a search warrant. Read my post above. A search warrant is mentioned, but what they show is an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. There is no mention of the deputies having or serving a search warrant. Search warrants for public record, if they had it they would show it. They either don't know what they're talking about, or they are purposefully Fanning the Flames with incomplete reporting.

Either is entirely plausible.

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A search warrant is mentioned, but what they show is an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. There is no mention of the deputies having or serving a search warrant.

Well there is mention of a search warrant....

You are correct. The warrant shown is not a search warrant, and I have seen both terms used interchangeably in several articles (that probably share information from a single source).

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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A search warrant is mentioned, but what they show is an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. There is no mention of the deputies having or serving a search warrant.

Well there is mention of a search warrant....

You are correct. The warrant shown is not a search warrant, and I have seen both terms used interchangeably in several articles (that probably share information from a single source).

Giving the media the benefit of the doubt...which is more than any of us should do...I expect they mean they got a hold of the search warrant for the post-shooting scene (which is standard practice), and in the affidavit the applying detective describes that "the arrest warrant the officers were trying to serve had an address of xxxx, directly across from the decedent's residence".

Or the news read the same search warrant affidavit, which would have had the address for the post-shooting search, as well as directions to it and likely a map, checked it against the address on the public arrest warrant, and put them in Google...or got out of their van and looked around.



For the record, if the information is clarified and the officers were attempting to serve a search warrant on the wrong house, I'll jump on the band wagon. If they picked the wrong house for an arrest warrant, and shot through a door unprovoked, I'll jump on the bandwagon.

But that's not what we've been presented with at this point. Two officers do not serve a search warrant alone together. And the wife has already said that there was a gun on the couch.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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We really do need to take a deep breath (on both sides) and wait on some actual evidence before saying that someone is wrong here.

Seeing they were at the incorrect address there's only one side in the wrong. Were it not for that error, all of the other actions leading up to the shooting would have never existed.

They were at the wrong address and that's as much as both sides have agreed. That was a mistake by the police.
What is in dispute is the actions of the homeowner. The police said he had the door open slightly and was pointing a gun at them. The wife said she didn't hear any notification from the police that it was them, and that her husband wasn't holding a gun at all.
If the wife's story ends up being 100% correct and the police lied and shot an unarmed man in his own house in the middle of the night then that compounds their error (the wrong address) into something much larger.
If the police version is true, then while it doesn't exonerate them from fault, it makes their subsequent reaction more understandable. Those are the important details we don't yet know.
In any case, the error of going to the wrong address started this whole unfortunate sequence of events and that wasn't the homeowners fault in any way.

Though the media covering this are some impressive idiots, I will give the family's attorney due credit...this man brought his A game and is worth whatever whomever is paying him. Video should be in this link:

http://www.fox13memphis.com/to...rong-house/571612568

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Originally posted by 220-9er:
Another case for body cams, and having them turned on.

I've been in a number of automotive incidents with a video camera on and many details I was sure I could recall, are recalled by the camera differently.

I certainly agree with this. I mentioned in another thread, my agency has changed policy to every single officer/detective, rank of Major and below, is issued body cameras. They will all wear them all the time when on duty and in uniform, and all the time when not uniformed but taking any form of enforcement action. They are required to be turned on/recording as soon as we are dispatched to a call or initiate any self-requested call.

Like them or hate them...that gets the point across and doesn't leave any wiggle room for "oopsies".

I cant say what practice, custom and procedure is in place with this agency, but:
My outfit generally did not attempt to serve arrest warrants at residences late at night. It was too risky for all involved. If a known violent offender ( I mean really violent, not thump your old lady weekly violent) was wanted, an apprehension team was formed and the operation tactically planned. Often, the warrant service attempt was done right about sun rise.
For most of my run of the mill, fail to appear warrants, I used a trick that worked well:
I would call the residence that I knew my guy was in and when someone answered, I would whisper "better get out of there, the cops are coming"! And hang up.
This often resulted in a mass exodus on foot or by car. Pretty simple to scoop up the wanted party. And sometimes a couple of other warrants got served. too.
Pretty devious, no? Worked great for me!

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Originally posted by 220-9er:
If the wife's story ends up being 100% correct and the police lied and shot an unarmed man in his own house in the middle of the night then that compounds their error (the wrong address) into something much larger.

Larger, yes. That most likely is murder.

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Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I cant say what practice, custom and procedure is in place with this agency, but:
My outfit generally did not attempt to serve arrest warrants at residences late at night. It was too risky for all involved. If a known violent offender ( I mean really violent, not thump your old lady weekly violent) was wanted, an apprehension team was formed and the operation tactically planned. Often, the warrant service attempt was done right about sun rise.
For most of my run of the mill, fail to appear warrants, I used a trick that worked well:
I would call the residence that I knew my guy was in and when someone answered, I would whisper "better get out of there, the cops are coming"! And hang up.
This often resulted in a mass exodus on foot or by car. Pretty simple to scoop up the wanted party. And sometimes a couple of other warrants got served. too.
Pretty devious, no? Worked great for me!

That's pretty clever lol

With my agency, any violent, armed, arrest warrants are served by a special team that is very very good at what it does. I think they have had one shooting in years, and they arrest multiple suspects a week, all of them shooting/murder suspects. We actually get emails daily saying "So-in-so is wanted for armed robbery/ADW/Murder, DO NOT LOOK FOR HIM, the case has been assigned to the Violent Criminal Apprehension Team, contact Det. Xxx if you have any information related to the suspect". And they mean it!

However, a warrant like this would have been attempted by whoever got the call. We get these every shift: "Agency XYZ requests an attempt to locate John Smith at 123 Street, wanted for domestic assault by strangulation. Warrant information is attached, contact Officer Scooby Doo if contact is made".

You round up one or two other officers and go knock on the door. Particularly in serious domestics, an attempt is going to be made. Worthless check warrant? Hold for day shift. Felony domestic that just happened one county over? We're on our way.