quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Even if he pointed a gun at the police, he wouldn't have pointed a gun at the police if they had been at the correct address in the first place.

There is no defense whatsoever for being at the wrong address and the homeowner killed as a result of it.

Scenerio: The guy at 100 Main Street has a warrant, and is considered armed and dangerous. Cops go to 99 Main Street and 101 Main Street to talk to the neighbors, to gather intelligence. To find out if the suspect is home, does he have anyone else living there with him, does he own dangerous dogs, when does he regularly come home from work, etc. You know, just regular intelligence that cops like to have when they are potentially going into a dangerous situation.

When the cops walk up to the neighbors house at 101 Main St, he sticks a gun out the door in their direction. The cops are rightfully at the "wrong address", but are now faced with a deadly threat. Since they are at the "wrong address" should they defend themselves, or just allow the guy to shoot them since they are at the "wrong address?"

Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?

Cops should never have guns pointed at them because they are at the "wrong address". How hard is it to say, "Howdy officers. Is there anything I can help you with?" A little civility and conversation goes a lot further than pointing guns at officer friendly for no apparent reason.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Even if he pointed a gun at the police, he wouldn't have pointed a gun at the police if they had been at the correct address in the first place.

I'm guessing you have never served any warrants before? So you are making accusations about something which you have little knowledge, and little experience? Ok. How many folks with warrants have updated and current addresses on their drivers licenses? You do know that scumbags change address often, and dont make it a habit of notifying the proper govt authorities of their current address? Their last knows address might be their 3rd baby mommas aunties cousins house. An officer might knock on 6 to 10 doors (all the "wrong address") looking for Joe Felon before they find the right address, or give up.

H&K-Guy axiom #34: It's costs you nothing to be polite to the police.

H&K-Guy

Seems a fairly conditioned response from many -- hold judgment until all the facts are in, which is a great principle in theory. In practice, that principle really means to assume the officer was justified in the shooting unless and until proven otherwise. And assume the now dead person, even if unintentionally and innocently, did something to warrant the shooting. So even if it was a tragedy, the officer is safe, and the taxpayer will pay the seven figure settlement.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:...How hard is it to say, "Howdy officers. Is there anything I can help you with?" A little civility and conversation goes a lot further than pointing guns at officer friendly for no apparent reason.

Did the now dead person know they were policemen?? Were the policemen maybe a little aggressive in their conduct?? And it seems there is some question if the now dead person actually had a gun. But the policemen seemingly said he did, or at least they thought he did. And policemen would never lie about such things to protect themselves or to cover for others, would they.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Even if he pointed a gun at the police, he wouldn't have pointed a gun at the police if they had been at the correct address in the first place.

There is no defense whatsoever for being at the wrong address and the homeowner killed as a result of it.

Scenerio: The guy at 100 Main Street has a warrant, and is considered armed and dangerous. Cops go to 99 Main Street and 101 Main Street to talk to the neighbors, to gather intelligence. To find out if the suspect is home, does he have anyone else living there with him, does he own dangerous dogs, when does he regularly come home from work, etc. You know, just regular intelligence that cops like to have when they are potentially going into a dangerous situation.

When the cops walk up to the neighbors house at 101 Main St, he sticks a gun out the door in their direction. The cops are rightfully at the "wrong address", but are now faced with a deadly threat. Since they are at the "wrong address" should they defend themselves, or just allow the guy to shoot them since they are at the "wrong address?"

Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?

Cops should never have guns pointed at them because they are at the "wrong address". How hard is it to say, "Howdy officers. Is there anything I can help you with?" A little civility and conversation goes a lot further than pointing guns at officer friendly for no apparent reason.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
Even if he pointed a gun at the police, he wouldn't have pointed a gun at the police if they had been at the correct address in the first place.

I'm guessing you have never served any warrants before? So you are making accusations about something which you have little knowledge, and little experience? Ok. How many folks with warrants have updated and current addresses on their drivers licenses? You do know that scumbags change address often, and dont make it a habit of notifying the proper govt authorities of their current address? Their last knows address might be their 3rd baby mommas aunties cousins house.

Boy oh boy, is there some tap dancing going on here or what? Woowee.

This paragraph, "Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?"

...I actually had to read a few times to know for sure if you were legitimately serious.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I do not answer the door when it is dark, unless I am expecting someone.

Bingo. I'll stay armed on my locked side of the door. Pretty easy to stay alive that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
This paragraph, "Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?"

...I actually had to read a few times to know for sure if you were legitimately serious.

Dead. Serious. What justification does a man have, ANY man, for sticking a gun out his door and pointing it anyone?

If your idea of fun is investigating a noise outside with your pistol in your hand, I'd go for option 2. Nothing outside matters. Its whats inside the house that matters.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
No knock warrants, asset forfeiture...

Things got to change!

There is no indication that this was either a no-knock warrant, or asset forfeiture.

If the officers went to a house and were greeted by a man pointing a gun at them, which may or may not be what happened, it is hard to fault them for defending themselves.

If that is not what happened, it is hard to defend them from that fault.

We will see.

But do not confuse serving an arrest warrant with serving a search warrant. Nationwide, tens of thousands of arrest warrants are served every day. A few thousand dynamic search warrants on physical locations are served every week. A small percentage of those are truly no-knock.

WELL put

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I do not answer the door when it is dark, unless I am expecting someone.

Bingo. I'll stay armed on my locked side of the door. Pretty easy to stay alive that way.

And when the police kick in your door and see you on the other side armed? Then what happens I wonder...

quote:

And when the police kick in your door and see you on the other side armed? Then what happens I wonder...

It appears he is the police....so that's probably not a concern for him.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
This paragraph, "Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?"

...I actually had to read a few times to know for sure if you were legitimately serious.

Dead. Serious. What justification does a man have, ANY man, for sticking a gun out his door and pointing it anyone?

If your idea of fun is investigating a noise outside with your pistol in your hand, I'd go for option 2. Nothing outside matters. Its whats inside the house that matters.

It has not been established that the door was ever opened or that the victim ever had a gun in his hands. The victim's attorney disputes that and the only witness who has come forward disputes that any verbal commands were given prior to the shooting.

http://wreg.com/2017/07/26/liv...vidence-in-the-case/

Attorney claims door was closed and that the victim never 'cracked' the door or pointed a gun at the police. A witness claims that no commands were given until after the shooting.

Of course, this is the victim's side of the story, just putting it out there as to what they are claiming. No one knows what really happened at this point - on either side.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

And when the police kick in your door and see you on the other side armed? Then what happens I wonder...

It appears he is the police....so that's probably not a concern for him.

Really? Why is it not? This mindset baffles me, that people think just because we put on a uniform and badge we are automatically immune to mistakes from other officers.

What is to stop a SWAT team or an officer from accidentally coming to MY house and kicking MY door, any more than yours?

Where I used to live, the police department was notorious for doing illegal shit. They were in the news weekly with their newest baffling f-up, internally and with the public. I always worried about being stopped by them, and knew several people who had been illegally stopped by them in my own neighborhood.

We don't have some magic talisman. If the officers are going to mistakenly go to a wrong door, just because we are police officers doesn't mean our doors won't be mistaken too. The only caveat I'll grant you is if the officer has a marked car in their driveway, and even with that...I've worked with some really dumb people...

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
This paragraph, "Its easy to place blame at the feet of the cops on this incident. How about a little personal responsibility? How about placing blame on the idiot who stuck his gun out the door at officers?"

...I actually had to read a few times to know for sure if you were legitimately serious.

Dead. Serious. What justification does a man have, ANY man, for sticking a gun out his door and pointing it anyone?

If your idea of fun is investigating a noise outside with your pistol in your hand, I'd go for option 2. Nothing outside matters. Its whats inside the house that matters.

It has not been established that the door was ever opened or that the victim ever had a gun in his hands. The victim's attorney disputes that and the only witness who has come forward disputes that any verbal commands were given prior to the shooting.

http://wreg.com/2017/07/26/liv...vidence-in-the-case/

Attorney claims door was closed and that the victim never 'cracked' the door or pointed a gun at the police. A witness claims that no commands were given until after the shooting.

Of course, this is the victim's side of the story, just putting it out there as to what they are claiming. No one knows what really happened at this point - on either side.

Sure. Hands up, Don't shoot. Because we trust the media on absolutely NOTHING around here, until it's a police shooting, and then it's the Holy Gospel. That one concept alone completely boggles the mind.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:...No one knows what really happened at this point - on either side.

I might suggest there are a few people who know first hand what happened. One problem is their account of events might be tainted due to the instant and massive spike in adrenaline. Another problem is, and to me quite likely, their account of events will be biased to support their desired innocence. A third problem might be finding some hard evidence to support either story.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:...people think just because we put on a uniform and badge we are automatically immune to mistakes from other officers....

How about immune from the consequences of your own mistakes? Or is it only other officers who make mistakes?

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Sure. Hands up, Don't shoot. Because we trust the media on absolutely NOTHING around here, until it's a police shooting, and then it's the Holy Gospel. That one concept alone completely boggles the mind.

I've not given an opinion at all because I don't know what happened.

The link I provided is to a video of the victim's attorney, not a talking head. Yes, I know the attorney is advocating for his client, but the statement from the police dept is advocating for their officers, so we just have to wait and see what evidence comes out...At least I do before I render an opinion.

quote:

Really? Why is it not? This mindset baffles me, that people think just because we put on a uniform and badge we are automatically immune to mistakes from other officers.

I have no doubt officers are subject to errors. The only police officer that I personally known that has ever been shot was "shot" (ricochet) by another officer at the range.

Do you know of a wrong address raid/warrant/911 response that involved a resident who happened to be a police officer getting shot? I have never heard of one.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:...people think just because we put on a uniform and badge we are automatically immune to mistakes from other officers....

How about immune from the consequences of your own mistakes? Or is it only other officers who make mistakes?

Eh?

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Sure. Hands up, Don't shoot. Because we trust the media on absolutely NOTHING around here, until it's a police shooting, and then it's the Holy Gospel. That one concept alone completely boggles the mind.

I've not given an opinion at all because I don't know what happened.

The link I provided is to a video of the victim's attorney, not a talking head. Yes, I know the attorney is advocating for his client, but the statement from the police dept is advocating for their officers, so we just have to wait and see what evidence comes out...At least I do before I render an opinion.

That is completely fair and where I am. Too many people act as if they are going to get a free toaster by rushing to judge.

It has worked well for me to wait. Seems that most of the time when the facts come out, and all those who are begging for some kind of conspiracy "hands up, don't shoot" are long gone from the thread and remain eerily silent when the facts do come out. And rarely, if ever do they match what all the hoopla is made over in the initial reporting.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

And when the police kick in your door and see you on the other side armed? Then what happens I wonder...

It appears he is the police....so that's probably not a concern for him.

I wonder if this shit would stop after they kill one of their own by showing up at the wrong address and getting aggressive in the middle of the night ?