I'm tired of the overemphasized "ARMED IRS AGENTS" schtick from the gun community. They've got as much right to be armed as anybody else and while we may disagree with their existence, mission, practices, etc., it seems hypocritical to jump all over the fact that they're armed.

^^^ Sensationalism sells, ya know. Left, right, they're all guilty of the same crap.

quote:

From the breitbart article linked in the OP:

The ATF form 4473 has a gun purchaser’s name, address, birthdate, state/city of birth, gender, social security number

My SSN does not appear on any 4473 that I have ever filed.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

From the breitbart article linked in the OP:

The ATF form 4473 has a gun purchaser’s name, address, birthdate, state/city of birth, gender, social security number

My SSN does not appear on any 4473 that I have ever filed.

It's optional. But, I'm pretty sure there are folks who are willing to provide more of their personal info than required.

They could have just as easily accomplished the same goal if 3 IRS agents showed up in suits. They aren't interested in law and order. Their goal is intimidation.

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Even OSHA is in on the action? Where's FEMA and the FDA on this?

In the commission of abuse of authority, the more the merrier.

Think of it this way-
When .gov wants to fuck you, it's more of a "Gang Rape" situation.

the issue with the 4473's is the information on them... lots of them will have folks social security number..(optional) and I'm still trying to figure out how the government can get away with some of the questions on the form. You can't ask many of those questions to a potential employee but they can require them... I'm still trying to figure out the newest one.."are you latino?" that is such a bigoted and racist question it is beyond belief.

I know this stuff from the inside.

If its IRS "armed agents", that's specifically "Special Agents" (same as a Special Agent for the FBI, etc)

All alphabet agencies have and have had for a long time, they all have the same mission, criminal investigation their sets of laws, IRS has a ton of authority because we also own the gun regulations too and most federal regulations tend to stem from taxing authority in some way.

Many don't realize IRS code actually covers gun regulations, the entire NFA from the 1930's is just a part of IRS code.

ATF was created/allowed to enforce it later.

Internet- "The National Firearms Act (“NFA”) was enacted in 1934 as part of the Internal Revenue Code.

It was the first federal regulation of the manufacture and transfer of firearms.

An exercise of the taxing power (of government), the NFA levied a federal tax on the manufacture, sale and transfer of certain classes of firearms."

I was assuming that the presence of ATF agents was to give authority for taking the 4473 forms. IANAL so don't know how all that would work.

flashguy

 
IRS using blue guns?

quote:

Originally posted by henryaz:
 
IRS using blue guns?

The proper use of force against the girl with a rubber knife in her belt…

It would seem to me once they took his 4473 forms from the premises he was no longer in compliance with ATF rules and could no longer function as an FFL? I know I'm just internet lawyering.... but still....

The shop that has handled all of my incoming and outgoing transfers will be shutdown effective June 30th this year. The owner has been an FFL for over 40 years. Persistent harassment by the ATF to run traces, produce paperwork, and ultimately a paperwork SNAFU which seems very much like the ATF helped to perpetuate has shut down another store. It’s not appropriate for me to discuss what happened, particularly because I only know one side of the story. I have come to know the owner and his employees over the 18 years I have patronized the store and have no reason not to believe what I have been told. A quick google search and acknowledgement of the ATF’s new zero tolerance policy shows that they are revoking licenses at a record pace. My FFL was able to negotiate a 4 month window to wind his business down a year before his license was set to expire.

The weaponization of the federal government is more frightening than anything I could have ever dreamt would have happened in my lifetime. The new tools the IRS will have after passing of the Inflation Protection Act is downright Orwellian.

quote:

Twenty heavily armed federal agents pulled in behind Highwood Creek Outfitters' owner Tom Van Hoose as he arrived at his shop Wednesday morning, KRTV reported.

IRS agents confiscated background check forms from the store that contained sensitive personal information about all customers who ever purchased a gun at the shop.

I don't know why they "took dozens of boxes full of 4473s — more than a decade’s worth" ... but this does seem like an excessive show of force.
Twenty heavily armed federal agents pulled in behind him? Why? Even if they were unarmed this still would seem excessive to me.

from Feb 2023

https://dailycaller.com/2023/0...n-gun-stores-errors/

Gun stores are closing at rapid rates after the Biden administration implemented a “zero tolerance” policy for gun dealers and added updated language to define what can be classified as a “willful” violation, leaving Federal Firearm License (FFL) revocations at a 16-year high, according to Second Amendment advocacy group Gun Owners of America (GOA).

The increase in FFL revocations is due, in part, to language and administrative changes within the ATF, as the prior guidance said that the ATF “may” revoke FFls while the new “zero tolerance” policy says that the ATF “will” revoke FFLs for initial violations. The increase in license revocations, 92 in 2022 alone, is also due to the updated procedure that the ATF follows, as they no longer always go through a multi-step process, often opting to pull licenses for a multitude of “willful” violations

“Back in the day there was a process that they would go through when they discover a mistake or an incorrect record, and it starts with a warning letter. They work with the FFL, and then on second inspection, if they find more mistakes, they’ll do a work conference and actually talk to the FFL. Then, if they still are uncompliant, after that they would do a license revocation hearing,” GOA Director of Federal Affairs Aidan Johnston told the DCNF.

Under the Biden administration’s new policy, the warning letter and conference safeguards are often circumvented, leaving the ATF to pull licenses on the first go-around, Johnston told the DCNF.

The 2022 revocations were the highest since 2008, tripled 2021’s revocations and exceeded revocations from years when twice as many gun stores were inspected

“If you have a clear record, if you don’t make any mistakes for a long period of time, and then you make a first one, that first one is evidence that it was a willful violation, because you knew how to follow the law before and you must have chosen to not follow on that first occasion,” Johnston told the DCNF.

The updated guidance shows that the “ATF must establish willfulness to proceed with revocation,” but the agency “does not have to establish a history of prior violations to determine willfulness,” according to the leaked document.

“After a gun store receives a warning conference, and you rectify your mistake, then you should be good. But the ATF, once the Biden administration announced zero tolerance, they went back and pulled all the people who received warning conferences, and then started reopening those cases and investigating them to punish them with zero tolerance,”

The left is panicking, anticipating the loss of power to abuse. Just a little more than 18 months to go.

ATF should have been done after Waco. Disbanded.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
They could have just as easily accomplished the same goal if 3 IRS agents showed up in suits. They aren't interested in law and order. Their goal is intimidation.

Absolutely. Reed and Malloy, with three IRS people wearing dresses, could have served this warrant. And likely, Reed and Malloy needn't be there.

It is not "overemphasizing" or "sensationalizing" the aspect that it took 20 armed IRS agents, with an untold number of ATF and local LE to serve a document file warrant on a sole individual at a small retail store. This current thread is a reminder of extreme measures taken by alphabet agencies in carrying out their "orders". In recent years, this same intimidation tactic in the midnight arrests of Trump people, along with the Mar-A-Lago raid which involved several dozen FBI agents, show how out of control government agencies are in regards to their interactions with citizens. This "shock and awe" crap is now being normalized, just like all of the other shit they pull.

quote:

Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
I read this yesterday. Need a lot more information before I can draw any conclusions.

Really? Still faithful to you overlords, eh?
As soon as I read IRS, ATF, or any other BS alphabet agency is involved I know which side of the line I stand on.

quote:

As soon as I read IRS, ATF, or any other BS alphabet agency is involved I know which side of the line I stand on.

YEP.

I no longer have any good will towards any of them. In fact, my will, is quite the opposite.

Coward cucks, every last one of them. If that offends some members here...then you either are one, or simply one of those that sticks your head in the sand while they f everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
I read this yesterday. Need a lot more information before I can draw any conclusions.

Really? Still faithful to you overlords, eh?
As soon as I read IRS, ATF, or any other BS alphabet agency is involved I know which side of the line I stand on.

If their ranks were reduced 90% or more tomorrow...damn fine day.