quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, just a quick question for you piece of mind types.

Nothing like starting conversation in the combat mode.

Neighbor drug me to a class at an LGS for US Shield Law, it's clear they position it as CCW insurance, but it's nothing more than a marketing program that offers access to legal help.

You'd be better off to drop $500 - $1000 retainer for the best self defense attorney in your area than giving them the same amount over 2 years, in 10 years you'll have given them close to $4000.

^^^That's exactly NOT what they are, nor was that the way they represented themselves at the 'seminar' I attended. Insurance provides coverage, within and/or up to the limits of the policy, in the event of a loss or damages. US Law Shield CLEARLY provides 'prepaid' Legal Services, NOT Insurance!


ETA - Not sure what state you're in there HRK, but apparently US Law shield offers either 'Insurance', or 'Prepaid Legal Services' depending on state law where the 'member' is located. In Texas they actually offer both! As such, we may both be correct here...

They offer 'Prepaid Legal Services in 19 states, including mine (NH), and 'Insurance' in 29 states/jurisdictions (includes Washington DC).

I pay $130/year for 'Prepaid Legal Services' and I've been a member since March 2019.

Here's the link w/ the list of States (Alaska, Maine, Rhode Island and New York are NOT listed), terms & conditions, etc --> https://www.uslawshield.com/terms-and-conditions/

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
You can cherry pick cases and situations and make it fit your own situation and opinion . One Lawyers opinion does not set the standard for the whole industry . I prefer to carry Insurance ( And yes it is Insurance ) . You do you , and I'll do me . I won't criticize your position and you should do the same .

Insurance?
Go online to your states insurance commissioner website and do a search for your particular provider. You can also look for the others that people have mentioned. If you have a lot of time on your hands look up other states you visit or are next to yours.
Report back how many you find that are listed on those sites.
I'll bet the number is closer to zero than it is to two.
They are not insurance.

I don't know your state but here's mine if you live here and want to look it up.

https://oci.georgia.gov/company-search

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, just a quick question for you piece of mind types. What’s the name of the attorney that this it’s-not-insurance-insurance is going to provide you. How many cases has he/she tried before a jury? What’s his win/loss? How long has he been with the Bar? How many grievances have been filed against him? How long has he practiced law in your area? Is he a former prosecutor?

Anyone?

I'll go ahead and bite at your combative question, since you live in one of the areas I specifically got USCCA for.

First, as pointed out...it isn't insurance, just like the vaccines aren't really vaccines in the traditional sense, and the various medi-share healthcare groups aren't healthcare insurance.

The fact that it doesn't fit into the normal insurance plan box, doesn't mean it doesn't have its place in some circumstances.

Before tackling the fallen, now communist state of Oregon, in my own jurisdiction, we have a small smattering of assistant district attorneys who can't really cut it in other areas of the country, and land here trying to make a name for themselves. You know, the "picked last" sort in elementary recess, they've learned how to pick their cases. Guilt or innocence makes zero difference, they simply look at whether they can likely get the W in a reasonable time period with the typical millennial minimal effort. I suspect my jurisdictional area is not alone in this practice of employing panty-waste ADA's willing to work for the peanuts that are paid.

USCCA provides an influx of readily available money, along with quick legal advice and the potential for supplementing your own legal team should you need it. Carrying that card tells the ADA you might have the resources to fight them, and won't just roll over and settle for a lesser charge if they throw the book at you. USCCA is going to cover bail. That's big, I'm not waiting on my spouse or buddies to generate the necessary cash/securities required to get back home while my house is getting ransacked.

I'm under no delusion though, that I'll have to find a decent local attorney, and I'll ultimately be shelling out decent money to fight if it goes that far. USCCA introduces a possibility that the ADA won't decide to mess with my case in the first place. It's a gamble, it depends on the severity of the situation, and it isn't an all-inclusive coverage. Nothing is. Any interaction with a DA is a gamble.


Now for when I'm in Oregon, "illegally" (as a nonresident) carrying, USCCA...helps offset the legal costs, and helps me find a local attorney to make nuisance charges lesser charges, and perhaps get me out of state. The best legal insurance for travel through Oregon, is to just not travel there in the first place. Similar to California, the whole I-5 corridor should be avoided if possible. USCCA is CHEAP "insurance" for when that isn't possible.

Excellent comments AKSuperDually. Appreciate the candid discourse.

Perhaps the question should really be, and one on every newbies mind, is “should I have “”coverage””, whether insurance or a “not insurance program” whenever I carry a weapon into the public domain?”

Very simply, coverage, of any sort, while carrying a weapon?

Who really cares if it’s insurance or a prepaid legal?

Facts, gents, facts. Forget about the semantics of legalize terms.

I'm a criminal defense attorney that practices in the King-Pierce-Thurston (think Seattle, Tacoma, Olympia) Washington area.

First, Satterburg (King), Robnett (Pierce), and Tunheim (Thurston), and any of their deputy attorneys, are going to give exactly ZERO fucks that the shooter has insurance or pre-paid legal services. I am currently representing a guy that had such services, got a DUI attorney paid for by the service who had never handled a self defense shooting, homicide or otherwise. His "discovery", the police report and all the "stuff" that the State is using to prosecute him has ZERO mention of this service he had, even though he had the card in his wallet. No one in the field gave a shit about it. In his case the charging decision was made without anyone but client knowing that he was covered. And I would bet ANY amount of money that this would be true for any homicide investigation in this state unless the shooter made any statement to that effect which would be MONUMENTALLY STUPID. Actually, that might need bigger word for that.

And when push came to shove, his pre-paid services gave him a DUI attorney that was helping him at first but did not make him feel comfortable in having someone like him handle the case.

I REALLY do not want to get into the vaccince debate, but the things you guys are paying into are not like vaccines, more like lucky rabbit's feet with a monthly cost. If they make you feel better, great. The odds are HIGH that you won't need it and you can sleep soundly. BUT, if you are ever in the situation to try and rely on the service DO NOT TRUST IT WITH YOUR LIFE. At least not without being sure.

This only goes for Washington, but I'd bet my child's college fund that this is the case everywhere. If you think your insurance will have ANY impact on the charging decision wherever you are involved in a shooting, my advice is to NEVER travel to that prosecutor's jurisdiction because the prosecutor is a complete tool and you can never know what's going to happen.

And the George Zimmerman case is complicated. His defense team was a variety of people and payment sources. It's not a true life example of how YOUR case would work (probably, and God help you if it is).

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
You can cherry pick cases and situations and make it fit your own situation and opinion . One Lawyers opinion does not set the standard for the whole industry . I prefer to carry Insurance ( And yes it is Insurance ) . You do you , and I'll do me . I won't criticize your position and you should do the same .

Insurance?
Go online to your states insurance commissioner website and do a search for your particular provider. You can also look for the others that people have mentioned. If you have a lot of time on your hands look up other states you visit or are next to yours.
Report back how many you find that are listed on those sites.
I'll bet the number is closer to zero than it is to two.
They are not insurance.

I don't know your state but here's mine if you live here and want to look it up.

https://oci.georgia.gov/company-search

"Insurance has been purchased by the USCCA and is one of the benefits of membership in the USCCA. USCCA members are additional insureds under a policy issued to the USCCA by Universal Fire and Casualty Insurance Company," And I'm covered in all 50 states .
I'm done here . Go spar with somebody else . I have shit to do . Still cleaning up from the hurricane .

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Nope. I heard this snake oil best explained as your cars extended warranty.

That's the description I always use for CCW Insurance.

Getting more media attention:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/po...-americans-pack-heat

Major concealed carry insurance providers in the U.S. say they have seen unprecedented growth in the past few years, as rising crime rates continue to drive more Americans to take their personal safety into their own hands by buying a firearm for self-defense.

Delta Defense, which runs the U.S. Concealed Carry Association (USCCA) and provides self-defense liability insurance coverage as part of membership in the education and training organization, has seen its membership numbers more than double from 300,000 in 2020 to nearly 700,000 today.

A decade ago, USCCA's membership was at 50,000.

Tim Schmidt, CEO of Delta Defense and President and Co-founder of the USCCA, attributes the surge to the "millions of brand new gun owners there are in the wake of primarily all the riots that happened in early 2020."
He told FOX Business, "A lot of people came to the realization that ‘Holy cow I need to be able to defend myself, so I'm going to buy a gun.'" And those new gun owners are seeking out education, training and further protection.

Competitor U.S. LawShield, which launched in 2009 and also provides education, training and concealed carry insurance, saw an enormous surge in membership starting in 2020, too.
"We had this combination in the last two or three years of COVID, civil unrest, gigantic increases in crime across the country – and we saw a very, very unprecedented growth in our company."CEO Kirk Evans told FOX Business, saying that his organization is also currently sitting at around 700,000 members.

Evans said another reason the industry has seen so much growth is because of increasing diversity among gun owners.

GUN SALES IN DEEP BLUE MASSACHUSETTS HIT RECORD LEVELS BEGINNING 2020, SPARKED BY FEAR: REPORT

"You could not go a week in the last year or two without seeing an article about ‘women make up the largest demographic of new permit holders’ or ‘African Americans have shown the highest increase’ or minorities as the biggest increase in blank or people in San Francisco running out to buy a firearm," he said. "This is not a white conservative group anymore."
Both CEOs believe business is set to take off further.

Evans sees opportunity following the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen, which will make it easier to obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun in a number of states.

Just like New York, Evans says, California, New Jersey and other states with restrictive permitting structures will now have to loosen them. He explained, "What we expect to see is a huge growth in three of the largest states in the country" due to the decision.

GET FOX BUSINESS ON THE GO BY CLICKING HERE

Schmidt sees opportunity in both the sheer number of gun owners in the U.S. and his company's own expansion, noting that there are some 22 million Americans that have concealed carry permits and 80 million households that own guns.

"It's a combination of just the overall society is just buying more guns because they're scared and they want to be able to defend themselves," he said. "And number two, we're getting better at our job."

No, don't have it. Never have.

I have insurance on my firearms, at significant cost, but it doesn't cover CCW, Self Defense shootings or anything of the sort.

My understanding is that it's not offered in Washington State due to prior drama with our state insurance commissioner and the media's obsession with what been described by the left as Murder Insurance.

I have skated through 36 years of LE experience without the need for anything more than having an attorney on retainer for a buck a year. I don't have meteorite insurance either.

Even if this were true insurance, insurance is a form of gambling, in this case that you won't need it. The odds of my needing it are too low for me.

I have it and there isn't a post here that will make me change my mind about it . It's amazing how divisive and polarizing this topic can be .

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, just a quick question for you piece of mind types. What’s the name of the attorney that this it’s-not-insurance-insurance is going to provide you. How many cases has he/she tried before a jury? What’s his win/loss? How long has he been with the Bar? How many grievances have been filed against him? How long has he practiced law in your area? Is he a former prosecutor?

Anyone?

Don’t have coverage, but looked at a few. Some tout providing lawyers where it would be very interesting to hear the responses to your questions. Others talk about providing funds to pay your chosen lawyer.

It seems like one might want to use your questions to select a lawyer, then if they want “non-insurance”, get some that funds your lawyer’s fees (or at least a portion of them).

Or I guess one could do their best to stay out of trouble.

On a comparison chart from the concealed carry website states Insurance Backed on several of the plans out there .

Some programs allow you to choose your lawyer, others will assign one to you.

Comparison Chart

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nra-life-member,

Self-defense insurance needs to be broken-down into polices for 'Free States' and 'Not-So-Free' States.

Those of us living behind enemy lines, where virtually the entire justice system will bear its weight upon you should you dare to defend yourself, especially with a firearm, will want some level of coverage. How much of course depends on your economic means and your daily risk.

I've found USCCA to be a very good resource along with their policy.

If you're comfortable with having a low bidder attorney who's willing to work on the cheap defend you, get the Insurance or one of the "plans".

If you want the very best attorney to keep you out of jail, hire one on your own.

It's that simple.

In Colorado if it's a good self-defense shoot, you have no civil liability.

FWIW.

Scaring the shit out of people is often a successful sales taxtic.

I despise such salesmen.

And here I thought CCW itself was my self-defense insurance.