NICE.

Keep writing letters. Make the state Senate aware that this is not a fringe issue.

So close...

A list of which Colorado legislators voted against pro-2A bills.

Colorado Gun Control Legislators 2015 (3/10/15)

Hey gang, thanks so much for all the updates & info you you've posted recently. Your efforts are appreciated!

Governor Hickenlooper made his monthly appearance on 850 KOA's Mike Rosen show yesterday and when asked what he would do if the magazine ban repeal bill would make it to his desk he said:

Governor Hickenlooper: "Well uh, you know, we try to avoid giving an opinion on a hypothetical because you always want to see what the bill looks like but what I did say yesterday and what I will say it again today... you look at the... we couldn't find a single example of someone who was defending their home and they needed more than 15 rounds. Couldn't find it anywhere in the country that's ever happened. Uh, we do know that roughly 30 to 40 percent of the police officers killed in the line of duty each year are, you know, killed with high capacity magazines, magazines with more than 15 rounds. Uh, and we know that when you go back and look at the mass killings over the last 30 years, uh something rough justice it was 41 out of 32 uh so three quarters use magazines more than 15 rounds. So, its not something uh someone needs to defend their home and now I recognize it is an inconvenience for someone to change magazines more frequently if they're at their shooting range or you know...

Mike Rosen: jokingly breaks in and says "I was a lousy shot when I was in the Army, I needed a hundred rounds to hit somebody."

Governor Hickenlooper: laughs, "I don't think, as a general rule I'm going to resist supporting or signing legislation that is not gonna.. make our state less safe. Without an ulterior benefit right... whats that ulterior benefit? That was the point I made yesterday, that you know, again, a significant number of police officers die every year because of high capacity magazines.. that they're, you know, used in mass shootings and there are a number of examples where if they had smaller magazines it probably would have saved lives. And then, stuttering, its not really needed and ever used in home defense."

Mike Rosen: "Even if there is a ban on magazines that can hold greater than 15 round in Colorado that doesn't mean they are not readily available and people in Colorado can get them anyway".

Governor Hickenlooper: "Sure, and that has been one of the arguments against it and I don't deny that. Like a number of laws we have on the books its not easy to enforce but you still make the laws to try and move the state in the right direction, to have a safer, you know again it goes back to sub machine guns. you know we banned sub machine guns way back in 1934 because they were used for bank robberies all the time. And people couldn't find a time or a way, no one was using them to defend their homes."

Commercial break & when the show resumed it was on different topics.

So, based on the Governor's B.S. justification for supporting the ban...

... I need a hand... could use a little help here.

I'm aware of several LEO shooting incidents that involved more than 15 rounds, but I don't know of any non-LEO incidents.

If anyone is aware of a non-LEO shooting in which the victim(s) or defenders used more than 15 rounds please post here.

Or, if any of you have some extra time, I'd appreciate a hand in researching this and finding examples of such incidents.

Unfortunately, I don't trust many of the usual news venues to provide accurate info, but even when they do, I'm skeptical that many of them will include the level of detail that would be required to know how many round were fired... but I think it is worth a shot (so to speak, ).

If there are example(s) of this I wold like to confront the Governor with the information.

I'm not politically naive enough to think the Governor would reverse his position on this ban, but I sure would like to take this particularly ridiculous talking point away from him.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

Governor Hickenlooper made his monthly appearance on 850 KOA's Mike Rosen show yesterday and when asked what he would do if the magazine ban repeal bill would make it to his desk he said:

Governor Hickenlooper: "Well uh, you know, we try to avoid giving an opinion on a hypothetical because you always want to see what the bill looks like but what I did say yesterday and what I will say it again today... you look at the... we couldn't find a single example of someone who was defending their home and they needed more than 15 rounds. Couldn't find it anywhere in the country that's ever happened. Uh, we do know that roughly 30 to 40 percent of the police officers killed in the line of duty each year are, you know, killed with high capacity magazines, magazines with more than 15 rounds. Uh, and we know that when you go back and look at the mass killings over the last 30 years, uh something rough justice it was 41 out of 32 uh so three quarters use magazines more than 15 rounds. So, its not something uh someone needs to defend their home and now I recognize it is an inconvenience for someone to change magazines more frequently if they're at their shooting range or you know...

Mike Rosen: jokingly breaks in and says "I was a lousy shot when I was in the Army, I needed a hundred rounds to hit somebody."

Governor Hickenlooper: laughs, "I don't think, as a general rule I'm going to resist supporting or signing legislation that is not gonna.. make our state less safe. Without an ulterior benefit right... whats that ulterior benefit? That was the point I made yesterday, that you know, again, a significant number of police officers die every year because of high capacity magazines.. that they're, you know, used in mass shootings and there are a number of examples where if they had smaller magazines it probably would have saved lives. And then, stuttering, its not really needed and ever used in home defense."

Mike Rosen: "Even if there is a ban on magazines that can hold greater than 15 round in Colorado that doesn't mean they are not readily available and people in Colorado can get them anyway".

Governor Hickenlooper: "Sure, and that has been one of the arguments against it and I don't deny that. Like a number of laws we have on the books its not easy to enforce but you still make the laws to try and move the state in the right direction, to have a safer, you know again it goes back to sub machine guns. you know we banned sub machine guns way back in 1934 because they were used for bank robberies all the time. And people couldn't find a time or a way, no one was using them to defend their homes."

Hickenlooper is such a disengenuous pile of crap.

If I was this homeowner, I'd sure as hell want mags with 15+ rounds in it.



https://youtu.be/0_rz2wBYin4

MDS,
As far as instances where 15 or more rounds were fire in defense of self or home, I'm not sure where to find that sort of info.

There used to be that website that cataloged media reports of SD gun use by citizens, but I can't recall the name of it now. I think that guy abandoned the website and started using Facebook. If I remember it, I'll let you know.

Storm, I agree... I'd want the option of more than 15 rounds for a number of potential attack scenarios including the one you linked to.

You are, of course, correct. Information such as what I'm looking for just isn't cataloged or collated in one central place like a website... so I realize I'm looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack... but I have found undocumented references to incidents involving more than 15 rounds.

I'm not a Facebooker, Tweeter, etc... so if you do happen to come up with that link it would be helpful.

So in my limited research so far I've come up with one incident in which 15 rounds were fired, references to an incident in which 20 rounds were fired but with no supporting documentation... and, of course, the infamous Beckwith shoot out in which the defender used two firearms (including a full auto) against 7 perpetrators and two Buicks...and fired 105 rounds.

Disturbingly, I've also come across documented incidents in which the defender fired their weapon until no rounds remained. In one instance the defender recalled hearing the distinctive "click" while the attack was ongoing.

... so, the research continues.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
You are, of course, correct. Information such as what I'm looking for just isn't cataloged or collated in one central place like a website... so I realize I'm looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack... but I have found undocumented references to incidents involving more than 15 rounds.

I'm not a Facebooker, Tweeter, etc... so if you do happen to come up with that link it would be helpful.

MDS,
I'm pretty sure this is the website/guy/organization I was thinking of, "The Armed Citizen". They have been doing this for years. Again, I'd doubt you are going to get a "rounds fired count" from these. They mainly archive/bookmark media reports of SD incidents, and comment on them.

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/ArmedCitizens
Note: You don't have to have a Facebook account to access their FB page, it's public.

Website: http://thearmedcitizen.com

HTH

Another NRA-ILA alert :

"Today, Senate Bill 175, the bill to repeal the arbitrary limitation on the number of rounds of ammunition in magazines, passed its second reading in the state Senate.  SB 175 is expected to be up for final passage on the Senate floor sometime later this week.  Please contact your state Senator today and urge them to SUPPORT SB 175.

As previously reported, after the unfortunate and politically motivated dismissal of House Bill 1009 by anti-gun legislators in the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs last month, Senators Chris Holbert (R-30) and John Cooke (R-13) reintroduced the same bill in the Senate as SB 175.  This bill would repeal the radical anti-gun legislation passed into law during the 2013 legislative session that arbitrarily limits the number of rounds of ammunition you can use to protect yourself and your family to 15.

When SB 175 passes through the state Senate, this legislation will most likely once again be referred to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs.  Your help is needed to convince members of the Committee to reconsider their stance on your constitutional rights.  The Vice-Chairman of the Committee, Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31), needs to hear from you.  Urge him to change his vote and to SUPPORT SB 175.  Tell him to repeal the ban on magazines holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition, so that you are not limited when it comes to protecting yourself and your family.  Please also begin contacting your state Representative in support of SB 175.

Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31)
Phone: 303-866-2918
Email: joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us"

And again from the NRA:

"Today, Senate Bill 175, the bill to repeal the arbitrary limitation on the number of rounds of ammunition in magazines, passed the full Senate by a 21 to 13 vote."

Given that CO couldn't get rid of Higgenlooper, even if you get these pro-gun bills out of the state legislature, do any of them have a snowball's chance in hell of getting signed?

quote:

Originally posted by bigpond73:
Another NRA-ILA alert :

"Today, Senate Bill 175, the bill to repeal the arbitrary limitation on the number of rounds of ammunition in magazines, passed its second reading in the state Senate.  SB 175 is expected to be up for final passage on the Senate floor sometime later this week.  Please contact your state Senator today and urge them to SUPPORT SB 175.

As previously reported, after the unfortunate and politically motivated dismissal of House Bill 1009 by anti-gun legislators in the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs last month, Senators Chris Holbert (R-30) and John Cooke (R-13) reintroduced the same bill in the Senate as SB 175.  This bill would repeal the radical anti-gun legislation passed into law during the 2013 legislative session that arbitrarily limits the number of rounds of ammunition you can use to protect yourself and your family to 15.

When SB 175 passes through the state Senate, this legislation will most likely once again be referred to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs.  Your help is needed to convince members of the Committee to reconsider their stance on your constitutional rights.  The Vice-Chairman of the Committee, Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31), needs to hear from you.  Urge him to change his vote and to SUPPORT SB 175.  Tell him to repeal the ban on magazines holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition, so that you are not limited when it comes to protecting yourself and your family.  Please also begin contacting your state Representative in support of SB 175.

Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31)
Phone: 303-866-2918
Email: joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us"

bigpond73, thanks so much for these updates, they really are helpful! If you happen to receive info on when the House might schedule a hearing or a vote on this I'd appreciate it if you would post here.

quote:

Originally posted by Storm:

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
You are, of course, correct. Information such as what I'm looking for just isn't cataloged or collated in one central place like a website... so I realize I'm looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack... but I have found undocumented references to incidents involving more than 15 rounds.

I'm not a Facebooker, Tweeter, etc... so if you do happen to come up with that link it would be helpful.

MDS,
I'm pretty sure this is the website/guy/organization I was thinking of, "The Armed Citizen". They have been doing this for years. Again, I'd doubt you are going to get a "rounds fired count" from these. They mainly archive/bookmark media reports of SD incidents, and comment on them.

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/ArmedCitizens
Note: You don't have to have a Facebook account to access their FB page, it's public.

Website: http://thearmedcitizen.com

HTH

Storm, thanks for the links... as it happens, I had already come across them in my research. Interestingly I've found an undocumented reference to a 5 year collation of some of the data they track. It is far from comprehensive, and somewhat flawed... but even still it provides some interesting data not normally found when researching non-LEO defensive shootings.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Given that CO couldn't get rid of Higgenlooper, even if you get these pro-gun bills out of the state legislature, do any of them have a snowball's chance in hell of getting signed?

No doubt about it, we're fighting an uphill battle. As you can see from the info posted above the Republican controlled Senate has already passed a ban repeal, so it next moves to the Democrat controlled House where it will undoubtedly face stiff resistance. This is where gun owners need to apply political pressure and "peel off" a few Democrats to vote with us.

IF we were able to get a few swing Democrat votes in favor of repealing the ban, that would apply even more pressure on the Governor, which should be our short term political goal, to put enough political pressure on the Governor that he might be swayed to sign the legislation.

Governor Hickenlooper signed the ban into effect & while he shoulders some of the responsibility for it, he could still "hide" behind his Democrat party controlled legislature when the blame was handed out. Now, if we could get a few Democrats to vote with gun owners on repealing this ban and the bill made it to the Governor's desk there ain't no hiding behind someone else... he will either get the credit if he signs it or the blame it he doesn't. I want to put that decision/ pressure squarely on him.

We have to try.

How much pressure can you apply to a guy who signed the bill that caused the ruckus, but then got reelected? He probably knows there are enough antis in Denver metro to counteract whatever the pro-gunners in the rest of the state want.

I have a feeling the Democrats in your House are the same way. They know the political breakdown in their districts. If a district elected a Dem, how pro-gun could it be?

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Given that CO couldn't get rid of Higgenlooper, even if you get these pro-gun bills out of the state legislature, do any of them have a snowball's chance in hell of getting signed?

No doubt about it, we're fighting an uphill battle. As you can see from the info posted above the Republican controlled Senate has already passed a ban repeal, so it next moves to the Democrat controlled House where it will undoubtedly face stiff resistance. This is where gun owners need to apply political pressure and "peel off" a few Democrats to vote with us.

IF we were able to get a few swing Democrat votes in favor of repealing the ban, that would apply even more pressure on the Governor, which should be our short term political goal, to put enough political pressure on the Governor that he might be swayed to sign the legislation.

Governor Hickenlooper signed the ban into effect & while he shoulders some of the responsibility for it, he could still "hide" behind his Democrat party controlled legislature when the blame was handed out. Now, if we could get a few Democrats to vote with gun owners on repealing this ban and the bill made it to the Governor's desk there ain't no hiding behind someone else... he will either get the credit if he signs it or the blame it he doesn't. I want to put that decision/ pressure squarely on him.

We have to try.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
How much pressure can you apply to a guy who signed the bill that caused the ruckus, but then got reelected? He probably knows there are enough antis in Denver metro to counteract whatever the pro-gunners in the rest of the state want.

I have a feeling the Democrats in your House are the same way. They know the political breakdown in their districts. If a district elected a Dem, how pro-gun could it be?

The Governor was re-elected but it wasn't by a landslide, he won by a very small margin. Also, like most states, Colorado has some districts that are solidly & reliably Democrat, some districts that are solidly and reliably Republican, and some districts that "swing". So, we are trying to target the Democrats that represent some of these swing districts.

Don't forget, through a grassroots movement we were able to remove two Democrat State Senators & cause a third to resign before facing a loss.

Are you suggesting that because we are facing an uphill political battle on this issue that we shouldn't try?

I think Big Sack just likes to bump this thread.

Update from the NRA ILA:

"After passing through the Senate last week by a 21-13 vote, Senate Bill 175, the bill to repeal the arbitrary limitation on the number of rounds of ammunition in magazines, has been sent to the House and assigned to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs. SB 175 is scheduled a committee hearing on Monday, April 6.

As previously reported, after the unfortunate and politically motivated dismissal of House Bill 1009 by anti-gun legislators in the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs last month, Senators Chris Holbert (R-30) and John Cooke (R-13) reintroduced the same bill in the Senate as SB 175.  This bill would repeal the misguided anti-gun legislation passed into law during the 2013 legislative session that arbitrarily limits the number of rounds of ammunition you can use to protect yourself and your family to 15.

Your help is needed to convince members of the Committee to reconsider their stance on your constitutional rights.  The Vice-Chairman of the Committee, Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31), needs to hear from you. Urge him to change his vote and to SUPPORT SB 175.  Tell him to repeal the ban on magazines holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition, so that you are not limited when it comes to protecting yourself and your family.  Please also contact the other members of the House State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee with your support.

House State, Veterans, and Military Affairs Committee Members:

Representative Su Ryden (D-36), Chairman, Majority Deputy Whip
(303) 866-2942
su.ryden.house@state.co.us

Representative Joe Salazar (D-31), Vice-Chairman
(303) 866-2918
joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us

Representative Mike Foote (D-12)
(303) 866-2920
mike.foote.house@state.co.us

Representative Steve Humphrey (R-48)
(303) 866-2943
rephumphrey48@yahoo.com

Representative Susan Lontine (D-1)
(303) 866-2966
susan.lontine.house@state.co.us

Representative Patrick Neville (R-45)
(303) 866-2948
patrick.neville.house@state.co.us

Representative Dianne Primavera (D-33)
(303) 866-4667
dianne.primavera.house@state.co.us

Representative Jack Tate (R-37)
(303) 866-5510
jack.tate.house@state.co.us

Representative Dan Thurlow (R-55)
(303) 866-3068
danthurlow55@gmail.com

Representative Max Tyler (D-23)
(303) 866-2951
max@maxtyler.us

Representative Yeulin Willett (R-54)
(303) 866-2583
yeulin.willett.house@state.co.us"

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
I think Big Sack just likes to bump this thread.

Ahh, that must be it... well a simple TTT or a "go get 'em guys would've worked better.

quote:

Originally posted by bigpond73:
Update from the NRA ILA:

"After passing through the Senate last week by a 21-13 vote, Senate Bill 175, the bill to repeal the arbitrary limitation on the number of rounds of ammunition in magazines, has been sent to the House and assigned to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs. SB 175 is scheduled a committee hearing on Monday, April 6.

As previously reported, after the unfortunate and politically motivated dismissal of House Bill 1009 by anti-gun legislators in the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs last month, Senators Chris Holbert (R-30) and John Cooke (R-13) reintroduced the same bill in the Senate as SB 175.  This bill would repeal the misguided anti-gun legislation passed into law during the 2013 legislative session that arbitrarily limits the number of rounds of ammunition you can use to protect yourself and your family to 15.

Your help is needed to convince members of the Committee to reconsider their stance on your constitutional rights.  The Vice-Chairman of the Committee, Representative Joseph Salazar (D-31), needs to hear from you. Urge him to change his vote and to SUPPORT SB 175.  Tell him to repeal the ban on magazines holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition, so that you are not limited when it comes to protecting yourself and your family.  Please also contact the other members of the House State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee with your support.

House State, Veterans, and Military Affairs Committee Members:

Representative Su Ryden (D-36), Chairman, Majority Deputy Whip
(303) 866-2942
su.ryden.house@state.co.us

Representative Joe Salazar (D-31), Vice-Chairman
(303) 866-2918
joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us

Representative Mike Foote (D-12)
(303) 866-2920
mike.foote.house@state.co.us

Representative Steve Humphrey (R-48)
(303) 866-2943
rephumphrey48@yahoo.com

Representative Susan Lontine (D-1)
(303) 866-2966
susan.lontine.house@state.co.us

Representative Patrick Neville (R-45)
(303) 866-2948
patrick.neville.house@state.co.us

Representative Dianne Primavera (D-33)
(303) 866-4667
dianne.primavera.house@state.co.us

Representative Jack Tate (R-37)
(303) 866-5510
jack.tate.house@state.co.us

Representative Dan Thurlow (R-55)
(303) 866-3068
danthurlow55@gmail.com

Representative Max Tyler (D-23)
(303) 866-2951
max@maxtyler.us

Representative Yeulin Willett (R-54)
(303) 866-2583
yeulin.willett.house@state.co.us"

Thanks bigpond73! Time to gear up & get our game faces on... I'll be passing the word through my contacts!

I'm not finding any updates about SB 15-175 (imagine that) .

Anyone have any new info?

The big day is April 13th when six bills will be heard. Below is a link from the good folks and the Colorado 2nd Amendment Association

Six Pro-Gun Bills Will be Heard on April 13th