Just a reminder for any of our members that shoot in the Boulder area that the last Open House will be held in a couple days.
See the above post for details. Should anyone attend I'd be interested in a report.
There doesn't seem to be much in the way of updates on this ongoing legal battle in Colorado. Other than a couple Top-of-the-hour radio news updates, I haven't seen any other info on it. Not even an NRA-ILA update.
After the Colorado Sheriff's lawsuit was rejected in District Court last year they appealed the decision to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals last week.
Colorado Sheriffs Move Forward With Challenge Of State Gun Laws
Colorado Sheriffs Move Forward With Challenge Of State Gun Laws
September 28, 2015 1:26 PM
DENVER (CBS4) – A group of sheriffs from different Colorado counties are moving forward with their fight to repeal stricter state gun laws put in place three years ago.
Those laws limit the capacity of ammunition magazines and expand background checks on gun purchases in Colorado.
Sheriffs like Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario say they are committed to fighting to protect what they say is citizens’ Second Amendment rights.
Dozens of current and former sheriffs gathered in Denver on Monday along with gun rights groups at the Byron White Courthouse. Many of those individuals are named in a lawsuit which challenges Colorado’s new laws.
Many of the sheriffs say the gun laws in question are unenforceable. One example, they say, of a violation that is nearly impossible to enforce is when someone lends a gun to a friend.
A district court previously rejected the sheriffs’ claims but they appealed the case to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.
“If we stop there then look at all the decisions that were ultimately decided in the Supreme Court that would’ve never been decided and what’s in the best interests of this country, so we want to make sure that we have the opportunity for the full process — the full justice system — to hear out our claims and our opinion and our side of this,” Vallerio said.
Each side was given approximately 30 minutes to make their case on Monday morning before a three-judge panel. That’s double the amount of the time the court usually allows for their cases.
Four to five months is the usual amount of time it takes for a decision in civil cases like this one, but a ruling could come down much sooner.
The Colorado Attorney General’s Office issued a statement saying it was “appreciative of the court’s time and consideration” during Monday morning’s arguments. They wrote that AG Cynthia Coffman “on behalf of Gov. John Hickenlooper is seeking clarity of the law in this matter and looks forward to the panel’s decision.”
The battle in Colorado continues...
Until you can get a gun friendly governor out there, noting much is going to change.This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,
|SIGforum's Indian |
Off the Reservation
Thanks for the update MDS. Hope all is well with you.
You can run, but you cannot hide.
If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate your concern & your support & participation in the thread!
Well, it was bound to happen. IF the circumstances around this incident are as the prosecutor states than it doesn't bother me to see this man charged in some capacity...
... having said that, given the "grandfathered" language of Colorado's high capacity magazine ban, I would like to see how they are going to prove this particular charge. I have concerns that it will be used as an "add on" charge and plead down.
Also, while admittedly not knowing all the facts, I have concerns that the mere allegation was enough for law enforcement to search his home while the charged man was being held, and that the assumption was that the magazines were being possessed illegally.
Although the title & contents of the article seem to indicate that this is the first case charged under the law in Northern Colorado, I've seen a few other news sources that have stated that this is the first case charged in all of Colorado.
This is a case that Pro-2A Coloradoans would do well to watch.
First large-capacity magazine charge filed in Larimer
First large-capacity magazine charge filed in Larimer
Jason Pohl, email@example.com 8:12 a.m. MST November 4, 2015
The man accused of threatening to burn down a college campus building in Fort Collins has been charged with illegal possession of a high-capacity magazine, marking the first time the charge has been filed in Northern Colorado since controversial legislation was signed into law more than two years ago.
The Larimer County District Attorney filed the charge last week against 29-year-old David Moscow, who was arrested after a psychologist reported him to police and said he was making threats about shooting a security guard and burning down a building at Front Range Community College if administrators didn't re-enroll him, arrest documents show.
While he was on a 72-hour hold, investigators searched his home and vehicle and found an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, a Glock .40-caliber handgun and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. That was in addition to multiple large-capacity magazines for both firearms — magazines that came under fire in 2013 during a round of legislation immediately following mass shootings in Connecticut and Colorado.
The Coloradoan requested district attorney's office personnel search records to determine how often the large-capacity magazine charge — Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-302 — was filed since Gov. John Hickenlooper signed the measure into law in July 2013.
Outside of Moscow's case in Fort Collins, that charge has never been filed in Larimer, Weld or Boulder counties.
Specific language under the law notes that a person who "sells, transfers or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a Class 2 misdemeanor." Large-capacity is defined as a magazine that is designed to accept or can be converted to hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition.
Legally speaking, the charge rises to the level of a Class 6 felony in this case because Moscow reportedly possessed the magazine during the commission of a felony — a measure built into the criminal code at the time of its adoption.
The legislative move in 2013 came in the wake of multiple mass shootings across the country — interest spiked after the shooting spree in Newtown, Conn. The Colorado march was led by Democrats and was met by fierce opposition among some Colorado leaders.
Among the most outspoken was Larimer County Sheriff Justin Smith, a Republican who has continued to lobby against stricter gun control measures. Six months after the bill was signed into law, Smith maintained the laws were "unenforceable." He, alongside law enforcement officials elsewhere in the state have vowed in the past not to enforce the laws because they were too vague, cumbersome and, they said, infringed on Second Amendment rights.
The law bans the sale, transfer and possession of ammunition magazines that hold more than 15 rounds, the exception being if the individual owned the magazine prior to July 1, 2013. The other arm of the law requires background checks of all private firearms transfers in Colorado. Violating either then became a misdemeanor offense.
Critics of the legislation also argue that Northern Colorado residents can make the short trip into Wyoming to buy magazines that hold more than 15 rounds, effectively skirting the sale bans.
“The truth is that magazine restrictions are about as effective at deterring criminals as gun free zones. Both can make certain people feel good, but in the end, they do nothing to protect the community,” Smith wrote in an email Sunday.
While he commended Fort Collins police for their work on the case, he said time will tell how the prosecution pans out on the magazine charge. Felons are already banned from possessing firearms. This charge adds a new element that has to be proven.
“Even if you believe the restrictions were reasonable or effective, you also have to essentially find a receipt proving when the individual came into possession of the magazines,” he said.
Democrats in 2013 pushed for the reform. Sen. John Kefalas, D-Fort Collins, supported limits on large-capacity magazine and mandatory background checks. On Sunday he said the Moscow case and subsequent charges were proof that the measures in place can work, even amid issues.
"The system worked to protect the public," Kefalas wrote in an email to the Coloradoan. "...It seems to me there is value to the law prohibiting large-capacity magazines if we can save one life despite the enforcement challenges.”
It was not immediately clear how often, if ever, the charge has been administered in counties outside of Northern Colorado.
Moscow posted his $37,500 cash bond on Saturday, was issued an ankle monitor and barred from coming within 50 yards of any FRCC property. After he allegedly drove past the Fort Collins location, a notification was sent to law enforcement, and campus administrators issued a lockout order that lasted through the afternoon.
He is due in court Monday.
Reporter Jason Pohl covers breaking news for the Coloradoan. Follow him on Twitter: @pohl_jason.
850 KOA's conservative radio talk show host Mike Rosen recently interviewed noted economist & Pro-2A author, John Lott.
I made a separate post for this interview, and while not Colorado specific, I thought the interview was interesting & worth listening to.
John Lott interview
|Yew got a spider |
on yo head
Kefalas or whatever the hell his name is, is a commie piece of dog shit. He doesnt care if someones house gets overrun or they get mugged by a gang. FUCK HIM.
Mike Rosen recently interviewed Colorado state Attorney General Cynthia Coffman regarding Concealed Carry & gun related issues.
Some of the answers are likely already understood by Colorado carry permit holders (and open carry) but I thought there were some interesting questions & clarifications as well, and might therefore be of interest to some:
The interview took place on 12-15-15 and is available in both streaming & downloadable podcast. The interview portion of the broadcast took place in the second hour so if you just want to listen to that part just fast forward to the midway point. (note: Mike Rosen recently announced he is stepping down from his long running show at the end of the year. I expect that the radio station will likely delete his past broadcasts so this interview may only be available for a few more weeks.)
Colorado State Attorney General Cynthia Coffman interview on Concealed Carry
Always prudent to know how Colorado state's "top cop" views guns and carry issues.
There is a Colorado Constitutional Carry Bill moving through the legislature that I urge you to contact your respective representatives and support.
Concealed carry bill advances
A 3-2 vote Tuesday will send Senate Bill 16-017 to Senate Appropriations
By Saja Hindi
Reporter-Herald Staff Writer
POSTED: 02/02/2016 08:47:52 PM MST
A Colorado State Senate Finance Committee hearing on a concealed carry permit bill mixed together discussion on budgetary implications, constitutional rights and even implied Biblical rights.
Senate Bill 16-017 would change requirements for concealed carry in Colorado, allowing gun owners to carry a concealed handgun without a permit. The bill, co-sponsored by Sen. Tim Neville, R-Littleton, — who is vying for a seat in the U.S. Senate — and House Rep. Patrick Neville, R-Castle Rock, passed the finance committee on a 3-2 vote Tuesday and will be sent to Senate Appropriations.
Sen. Tim Neville told the Senate Finance Committee that the bill had several benefits, including allowing for state expenditures to decrease because there won't be as much licensing needed. The right for Coloradans to protect themselves, Neville said, is not only a U.S. Constitutional right but is an "inalienable God-given right," which "trumps anything written by man," he said in reference to the State Constitution.
And permits, he said, don't prevent crime but keep law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves.
Neville said just as poll taxes were levied previously, he opposes the concealed carry permit fees on the same principle.
Sen. Michael Merrifield, D-Colorado Springs, opposed the bill and said polls show 88 percent of Americans oppose permit-less concealed carry. He said it sounded as though Neville was cherry-picking which parts of the Constitution to follow, citing a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court decision that determined Second Amendment rights are not unlimited.
However, supporters of the bill argued that the Colorado Constitution does not define or ban concealed carry and that they are not arguing for anything against the Supreme Court decision.
Merrifield also took issue with the idea of concealed carry being a "God-given right," saying that as the son of the Baptist preacher, he's never seen a verse in the Bible that made that determination.
Vice Chairman Sen. Owen Hill, R-Colorado Springs, responded saying the verse is right next to the one giving the right to use the restroom — "it's implied."
The bill does not include a provision for reciprocity — Coloradans who visit other states that require permits for concealed carry would still need them.
Buddy Meyers of Loveland, owner of Tall Guns LLC, said he opposes what's referred to as "constitutional carry."
Meyers said he has a "firm, strong belief that people should receive a level of training" on the legal implications of self-defense, how to properly shoot a firearm and even understand the psychological impacts if one has to shoot in self-defense.
"While I understand the emotion that folks have around it, they really need to understand there's a huge set of legal issues around use of force," he said.
Saja Hindi: 970-669-5050 ext. 521, firstname.lastname@example.org, twitter.com/SajaHindiRH.
Concealed carry bill advances
|Yew got a spider |
on yo head
It's embarrassing some of the commies we have here.
I'd like to see it go through. And that idiotic magazine ban!! lift that shit post haste.
That store owner is quite the intellectual.
I fully support the idea that any Colorado resident who carries a gun should have firearms training, but I think what the gun store owner misses is the simple fact that we can have both, a permitless CHP policy and still encourage training. Perhaps some sort of incentive could be offered to those who do take and could prove their training proficiency.
As it stands now there are many Colorado CHP holders that have gotten their permits without any live-fire shooting.
Even if this bill were to become law it might be possible to still have a Colorado CHP program for those wishing to maintain reciprocity.
I speak jive.
Buddy Meyers is a fool.
Hopefully this passes, and similar bills pass all over these United States.
There is a bill introduced into the Colorado legislature that would repeal the magazine ban and eliminate the marking requirement. I urge you all to contact your elected reps. and support it.
This is the NRA-ILA notice on it:
Colorado: Tell Your Representative to Support Repeal of Arbitrary Magazine Ban
In 2013, the Colorado Legislature restricted the ability of law-abiding gun owners to protect themselves by limiting the amount of ammunition a firearm magazine can hold. This arbitrary limit does nothing more than hinder the lawful right to self-defense of Coloradans because criminals do not follow the law.
At the start of the current session, House Bill 1024 was introduced by state Representatives Lori Saine (R-63) and Vicki Marble (R-23). This legislation seeks to repeal this arbitrary limit on ammunition magazines. HB 1024 has been referred to the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs where it will be scheduled for consideration.
Please contact members of the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs and politely urge them to support this important legislation. Contact information can be found below.
Members of the House Committee on State, Veterans and Military Affairs:
Representative Su Ryden (D-36), Chair
Representative Susan Lontine (D-1), Vice-Chair
Representative Mike Foote (D-12)
Representative Steve Humphrey (R-48)
Representative Timothy Leonard (R-25)
Representative Patrick Neville (R-45)
Representative Dianne Primavera (D-33)
Representative Max Tyler (D-23)
Representative Cole Wist (R-37)
As long as Higgenblooper is you governor (and longer if he gets replaced by an ideological clone_, I doubt any of this is going to get through.
I think you've reached the point of no return with the communist/anti population takeover.
Yeah, you're right. We should just give up and curl into the fetal position and just let the anti-2A crowd have their way without a fight.
You have to do what you can do that will actually work. Anything that will require the signature of your anti governor isn't going to work. I was hoping you could have gotten rid of him in the last election, when the pro-gun forces were at their most riled up. But you didn't. That says something about the state of your state.
Either you need to do something to convert or get rid of the antis in your state, or you're just not going to be able to change things.
You have an annoying habit of intermittently popping into this thread and telling us how we are just wasting our time.
Ok, Mr. Gotitallfiguredout, why don't you just enlighten us with your brilliance. What should we be doing that we haven't already? What brilliant strategy can you share with us that hasn't already been thought of and tried? What masterful stroke of genius can you contribute to this effort that doesn't involve a defeatist attitude?
I'm all ears.
I do know what won't work. And that's trying to pass legislation that won't get signed by the governor and that for which you can't get a veto overridden. This is like at the national level, the House trying to keep revoking Obamacare, and it going nowhere. It's a waste time, resources, and political capital. It just makes you look stupid.
Are you enjoying the flat spot that's developing on your forehead from bashing it into the brick wall that is Higgenlooper?
You want to try something that might work? Build the political base in CO that will allow you to replace Higgenlooper with a pro-2A Republican, along with getting a pro-2A majority in your legislature. Then, and ONLY then, maybe you can get your pro-gun legislation passed. If you don't want to, or can't do that (because of demographic changes), you are going to fail.
Really? Replacing the governor and changing the electorate's stance? This is your brilliant political acumen at work? Did you come up with that all by yourself? I mean it's just so simple... why didn't we think of that?
This should be so blatantly obvious to you that it shouldn't even be necessary to explain this, but alright, let's delve into political reality. In case you hadn't noticed the nation is deeply divided due to, as Thomas Sowell termed it, a conflict of visions. Individual states political make-up reflect this conflict of vision to varying degrees.
Colorado is no different. We are a divided state. As with all political realities, the denser population areas sway the political climate to a greater degree than the lower population rural areas. The elected offices in Colorado reflect this divide.
We have a Democrat anti-gun governor and a divided legislature. This is the reality.
As Donald Rumsfeld rightly pointed out, "you go to war with the army you have". We are working within the framework of our political reality to implement change... and we have experienced both success & set-backs. Colorado used to be a "may issue" state but is now "shall issue". We've allowed open carry for years. The past two elections have resulted in retaking one body of the legislature, more Rs in the Democrat controlled body, various state offices such as the AG & SOS retaining 2A supporting Rs, almost every Sheriff in the state supports 2A, and we successfully recalled two anti- 2A Ds, and scared a third into resigning their seat . The governor obviously was re-elected, but by a much smaller margin.
We have made progress by fighting & we will continue to push for more.
You strike me as the sort who sits in the stands on the 50 yard line, always criticizing the efforts of others but never rolling your own sleeves up and breaking a sweat or getting your hands dirty.
Or maybe it's a medical issue that keeps you from fighting for our rights... maybe you should talk to your doctor and see if he can locate your missing backbone.
Are you even a member of the NRA, or other Pro-2A organization?
So, all we need to do is replace the governor and change the voter's minds? Well, why don't you regale us with all your tales of political exploits. Why don't you tell us all about the governors
you've replaced and the massive populations you've converted to pro 2A support.
Please continue with all your vast personal experience in the areas you've advised others to follow. Don't forget the specific details of your accomplishments so we all can learn from your personal successes in King Making.
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