The 10mm SIG 220ST Project - Topic Powered by eve community

9mmepiphany

Member

Posted

quote:
for $510 I could get a Glock 10mm.

...and that would do what toward obtaining a 10mm sig?

quote:
Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides

the glock's frames flex

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Posts: 5892 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003

Ignored post by 9mmepiphany posted

clayshooter

Mainly a Mainer
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Posted

quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:
Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides

the glock's frames flex

Could be. I'm not sure. Honestly, that's why I was asking, just out of curiosity.

Posts: 4799 | Location: NH | Registered: May 20, 2004

Ignored post by clayshooter posted

StVitus

Member

Posted

I'm also curious, if the slide of the P220 Elite Carry is too short to handle the recoil/ pressures/ energy of the 10mm, perhaps I need to retire my S&W 1076s and My Bren Ten Special Forces?

Seriously, with the advanced metallurgy and technology that has gone into the P220 series, why not an Elite Carry? Is the simple answer that BarSto wants to keep the initial run simple?

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Ignored post by StVitus posted

DOUROS81

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
quote:
for $510 I could get a Glock 10mm.

...and that would do what toward obtaining a 10mm sig?

quote:
Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides

the glock's frames flex

I can't see spend all that money for a Sig 10mm, when a $500 Glock 10mm will do about the same thing.

I'm not a 10mm nut. I like 45 ACP and 357 Mag.

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Ignored post by DOUROS81 posted

9mmepiphany

Member

Posted

quote:
can't see spend all that money for a Sig 10mm,

unless i'm mistaken, i think the point of the thread wasn't about the value of a 10mm conversion of a sig 220, but to determine how much demand, with an accurate price point, there was for a custom conversion of a sig 220 to 10mm.

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Posts: 5892 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003

Ignored post by 9mmepiphany posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by 45R:
Hey for those of us who already have a ST and want to be able to shoot both the 45ACP and 10mm does the conversion change the frame to shoot 10mm only or can we still shoot 45ACP if we have another slide/barrel combo.

You would need to know a bit about the internals and how to swap out certain parts, and you would need a second slide, but yeah it can be done.

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Posts: 2630 | Location: GRAYGUNS HQ - Spray OR | Registered: June 01, 2005

Ignored post by Flork posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!

The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.

Posts: 2630 | Location: GRAYGUNS HQ - Spray OR | Registered: June 01, 2005

Ignored post by Flork posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Anyone have a suggestion on where to find a P220 Elite Stainless? (for this project)

The Supermatch looks great too, but has the AL frame - does the longer slide help in that regard?

I've been looking with no luck; idears welcome.

Yes the long slide does help, it'll be heavier and give us better ability to manage the recoil.

Posts: 2630 | Location: GRAYGUNS HQ - Spray OR | Registered: June 01, 2005

Ignored post by Flork posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by StVitus:
I'm also curious, if the slide of the P220 Elite Carry is too short to handle the recoil/ pressures/ energy of the 10mm, perhaps I need to retire my S&W 1076s and My Bren Ten Special Forces?

Seriously, with the advanced metallurgy and technology that has gone into the P220 series, why not an Elite Carry? Is the simple answer that BarSto wants to keep the initial run simple?

Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs. As stated in another post I just made, the locking block insert and take down lever take all the impact from the recoil of the 10mm cartridge. The problem is making the gun so that it will last.

Posts: 2630 | Location: GRAYGUNS HQ - Spray OR | Registered: June 01, 2005

Ignored post by Flork posted

clayshooter

Mainly a Mainer
Picture of clayshooter

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!

The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.

Ahh, gotcha'. Makes sense. Thanks for that reply, Flork,

Posts: 4799 | Location: NH | Registered: May 20, 2004

Ignored post by clayshooter posted

signoir

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs...

IIRC, the stock P220 recoil spring is 20lbs. That would give the 24lb spring a 20% increase in resistance to the 28% increase in PF (using Sigfreund's numbers of 182 and 234 for .45 and Doubletap 10mm respectively). Shooting DTs out of my 5" Kimber, I run a Wolff 22lb spring - an increase of 38% over the 16lb spring that Kimber uses for their .45. I notice that Wolff doesn't offer a higher spring rating than 24lb for the 220 on their website. Even if you could install a heavier spring, I'm not sure how easy it would be to rack the slide.

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Posts: 651 | Registered: July 04, 2006

Ignored post by signoir posted

45R

Resident BoneCrusher
Picture of 45R

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by tetchaje:
Foshizle. Time to start hunting for a 220ST...

I have a GGI 220ST....but it'll cost you an arm and a leg

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Posts: 8499 | Registered: November 26, 2002

Ignored post by 45R posted

SIG_NZ

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Glad to see this come to fruition.

Now it's time to see how many of those "Damn it, SIG, make a 10mm" people put their money where their mouths are.

Oat

Start exporting them to New Zealand, and I'll personally shove the money in your pocket!

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Posts: 197 | Registered: March 20, 2006

Ignored post by SIG_NZ posted

SIG_NZ

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!

The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.

With the glock it would have to be a combination of increased slide weight, recoil spring tension, slide flex and frame flex. I have a G20 already on order....gotta go with what is proven....but export some here and I'll buy it for sure!

Posts: 197 | Registered: March 20, 2006

Ignored post by SIG_NZ posted

NorfolkP229

Member

Posted

Damn. I swear this forum is gonna get me divorced!! VERY interested in a P220 Elite Stainless in 10mm!!!

I guess its time to start tracking down an Elite.

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Ignored post by NorfolkP229 posted

Member

Posted

Don't allow it to come to divorce.

Tell her the 10mm Elite is a gift for her and just play it that way. That's what I would do if I were married.

My Late Uncle Leonard(the guy who got me into shooting) gave me the following advise for my choice of hobbies and my future with a woman.

"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."

Man, that's good advise.

I miss my Uncle.

Posts: 2630 | Location: GRAYGUNS HQ - Spray OR | Registered: June 01, 2005

Ignored post by Flork posted

seabass

Member

Posted

Scott,

That should be your new signature line.

Posts: 922 | Location: CA | Registered: July 28, 2002

Ignored post by seabass posted

Anarion

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs. As stated in another post I just made, the locking block insert and take down lever take all the impact from the recoil of the 10mm cartridge. The problem is making the gun so that it will last.

Just out of curiosity, then what is the likelihood down the road of possibly trying the SigPro? No takedown lever to be concerned about...

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Ignored post by Anarion posted

STUGOTSIG

Runnin' home to some small Ohio town

Picture of STUGOTSIG

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."

That's been my plan for a while now. Although when I first started dating my wife, I had sold off my collection (due to my first wife

). All I had was my MKII and a shottie.
For my birthday one year (still dating), she hands me a Series 70 Colt...She has no idea how many I have now

Man I love my wife

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Ignored post by STUGOTSIG posted