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WHAT IS THE PROBLEM ? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of oldseabag860
posted
Does anyone know why all ammo and reloading supplies dried up I would like to have a reasonable explanation
Thank You


"NO TWENTY TWO FOR YOU"
 
Posts: 267 | Location: Southern New Jersey | Registered: January 07, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Same old story as all shortages... Demand has outstripped supply.

In this case, it is thanks to the mass panic buying that has been going on since March, first because of the virus and related uncertainty, then because of the riots and related uncertainty, and now because of the election and related uncertainty.
 
Posts: 26305 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
I'm not an active reloader, but I'll take a crack at answering the question.

It should be obvious, to at least those who pay attention to such things, that there have been multiple shortages reported, in many cases with corresponding price increases. From new cars, to various food items, toilet paper, paper towels, and guns/ gun parts/ accessories, and ammo...the list goes on and on.

The demand started for various items as the C-19 pandemic problems (and the hysteria that followed it)
increased through March. Manufacture supply chains were (and in many cases continue to be) disrupted, both by mandated local lock down restrictions as well as infected employees forced to stay home for quarantine periods.

Then throw in widespread riots, protests, violence, and property destruction, with an even greater demand for guns, ammo, and other defensive items.

Ohh, and let's throw in the fact that 2020 is a contentious election year, with widespread threats and concerns about not only more violence and destruction, but, potentially,a new administration hell bent on implementing further second amendment restrictions. In fact, increased restrictions on 2A were announced this past Summer prior to the election.

Simple Supply and Demand economics 101. Right now, Demand greatly outstrips Supply on many items, and will for the foreseeable future.

The time to buy ammo reloading supplies was before an election year, before a pandemic, and before widespread violence and destruction caused shortages.
 
Posts: 5675 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of az4783054
posted Hide Post
If you haven't noticed yet; toilet paper, paper towels, paper plates (and joe's favorite adult diapers) are in short supply...again. All for the same reasons as above.
 
Posts: 10803 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of lastmanstanding
posted Hide Post
Eight plus million new gun owners needed something to feed all those guns as well. I think supply will return but it's going to be a lot longer before prices do.


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton
 
Posts: 7034 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Ace31
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I'm not an active reloader, but I'll take a crack at answering the question.

It should be obvious, to at least those who pay attention to such things, that there have been multiple shortages reported, in many cases with corresponding price increases. From new cars, to various food items, toilet paper, paper towels, and guns/ gun parts/ accessories, and ammo...the list goes on and on.

The demand started for various items as the C-19 pandemic problems (and the hysteria that followed it)
increased through March. Manufacture supply chains were (and in many cases continue to be) disrupted, both by mandated local lock down restrictions as well as infected employees forced to stay home for quarantine periods.

Then throw in widespread riots, protests, violence, and property destruction, with an even greater demand for guns, ammo, and other defensive items.

Ohh, and let's throw in the fact that 2020 is a contentious election year, with widespread threats and concerns about not only more violence and destruction, but, potentially,a new administration hell bent on implementing further second amendment restrictions. In fact, increased restrictions on 2A were announced this past Summer prior to the election.

Simple Supply and Demand economics 101. Right now, Demand greatly outstrips Supply on many items, and will for the foreseeable future.

The time to buy ammo reloading supplies was before an election year, before a pandemic, and before widespread violence and destruction caused shortages.


Also heard the LAST lead mine operation closed in the US thanks to the EPA. So now all lead comes from China and or other overseas sources.
 
Posts: 2012 | Location: Wherever the voices in my head tell me to go | Registered: April 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of nhracecraft
posted Hide Post
^^^Rumor on the internet is that the EPA will be targeting that last remaining Lead Smelter for shut down as well... Wink


____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
Trump 2020....Make America Great Again!
"May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20
 
Posts: 4197 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
Three things (perfect storm)

COVID

summer / fall mass unrest / riots

Election

------------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8195 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
posted Hide Post
I think mrgunsngear called it way back during the start of the Covid panics. We had the job site jogger riots, record new gun owner sales, Covid panic, record new gun owner sales, fentanyl Floyd riots, record new gun owner sales, and of course a high stakes presidential election. All during this there were supply chain and manufacturing restrictions due to Covid. The only way it could get worse would be an alien or Soviet invasion.
 
Posts: 8900 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
The only way it could get worse would be an alien or Soviet invasion.


Or Soviet aliens...

"Take me to your leader, comrades."
 
Posts: 26305 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of giz55792
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Our store manager has a friend that works for Federal and the friend told him that the feds have placed huge orders and with the problems Remington is having, the other ammo makers can't keep up. He said Federal is offering unlimited overtime around the clock just to maintain the feds order, therefore, civilian ammo supplies are not being touched right now.
 
Posts: 680 | Location: Virginia, MN | Registered: October 01, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by giz55792:
Our store manager has a friend that works for Federal and the friend told him that the feds have placed huge orders and with the problems Remington is having, the other ammo makers can't keep up. He said Federal is offering unlimited overtime around the clock just to maintain the feds order, therefore, civilian ammo supplies are not being touched right now.


I heard that 12 years ago. And again 8 or so years ago. Along with the lead smelter joke mentioned above.

Guns, gun accessories, and ammo are going to be items that regularly are hard to find and expensive.

People in this world are generally unprepared. Even though this is the third such major drought in the last 12 years people seem to have a short memory. And they don’t listen to all the warnings that they should be buying guns and ammo when such things are plentiful and cheap.

Toilet paper is a great example. We literally just went through a TP shortage about 8 months ago. In the last few months TP has been widely available again but I’ll guarantee we have members who only have enough to make it a couple weeks.

Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

Or ignore the past and the warnings, wait until it’s too late and go buy the 1000 rounds of target 9mm for 700 bucks the guy is trying to sell in the classifieds.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13782 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ace31:

Also heard the LAST lead mine operation closed in the US thanks to the EPA. So now all lead comes from China and or other overseas sources.


You mean mines such as the Lucky Friday in Idaho, still producing lead and silver, and produced 4,098 tons of lead last year?

https://www.hecla-mining.com/lucky-friday/

Or the Greens Creek, in Alaska, which produced 20,112 tons last year?

https://www.hecla-mining.com/greens-creek/

In 2019, the US was the fourth largest producer of lead in the world, after China, Australiaa, and Peru, with 280,000 metric tons.

https://www.statista.com/stati...oduction-by-country/

But other than that, yes, no production. The last lead smelter in the US closed in 2013. At the time, the US was third in lead production. Doe Run smelter was a primary smelter, meaning it processed ore from mines. Most lead in the US is used in bateries; approximately eighty percent. Most lead used in bateries is recycled, and bullet manufacturers tend to use recycled lead, not primary lead; secondary smelters handle secondary lead, not the primary smelter. The closure of Doe Run didn't affect ammunition production in an appreciable way, and lead is still available to bullet manufacturers.

At the time of the Doe Run smelter closure, the NRA released aa statement which read, in part: " We previously reported on the closure of the nation’s last primary lead smelter due to tightened EPA standards on ambient air quality. As the date for closure of the smelter approaches, there has been a significant amount of speculation concerning the effect of the smelter’s closure on the availability and price of ammunition. According to the United States Geological Survey, lead usage in ammunition makes up only about three percent of lead consumption in the United States. Lead-acid batteries make up the vast majority of U.S. lead consumption, and these batteries are readily recycled. This recycled lead, which will still be able to be smelted in the United States at secondary smelters even after the Herculaneum smelter closes, is the type most often used by ammunition manufacturers. Speculation about the effect of the Herculaneum smelter’s closure has caused a number of ammunition manufacturers, including Sierra and Federal, to issue public statements on their ability to continue to source lead for ammunition production. As Lawrence Keane, the senior vice president and general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, pointed out to Emily Miller of the Washington Times, ammunition producers have known for some time of the impending closure of the Herculaneum smelter and do not believe that the closure will affect production of lead ammunition components."
 
Posts: 5450 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are a lot of consumers who turned 18 since the last major run which I consider to be late Dec of 2012, right after Sandy Hook. A minor run on ammo, guns and components occurred leading up to Trump's election in '16 but it was quashed after that November. So much so that several of our local gun shops went under only a couple of months into his term as president.
The Sandy Hook run lasted a couple of years, especially with .22 LR, but it still wasn't on the radar of a bunch of 20 somethings who didn't own guns or didn't care.
I monitor a website of a local, very large university which started as a sports/football site but evolved into everything else, esp Outdoors. The fascination with the ammo shortage there has been enlightening. Many of the 'handles' of posters has their graduation year attached, such as Beowulf2020, indicating he is around 22 years old. The number of posters initially indicating they had no ammo, guns, etc when this run started earlier this year was surprising but it also revealed the majority were late 20s to early 30s.
They have become internet ammo experts and apparently spend most of their time on a computer looking for available ammo. Not just 'affordable' ammo. Any ammo. 4 months ago when a well-stocked individual would offer premium .223 such as Speer GDSP for 60 cents per round, they were crucified as being rip-off artists. Now, steel case .223 is a deal for 90 cents and they publish where it can be found and 40 knotheads answer publicly that they 'grabbed' the max of 4 boxes of 20 and that shipping was only $18.
Now, many are trying to unload it as credit card bills are coming due and they inadvertently ran up ammo bills that couldn't be paid for.
It has been somewhat amusing to follow but at least they have been awakened to reality. And a reality of which we may not have seen the final episode.
 
Posts: 336 | Location: East Texas | Registered: June 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kuisis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
quote:
Originally posted by giz55792:
Our store manager has a friend that works for Federal and the friend told him that the feds have placed huge orders and with the problems Remington is having, the other ammo makers can't keep up. He said Federal is offering unlimited overtime around the clock just to maintain the feds order, therefore, civilian ammo supplies are not being touched right now.


I heard that 12 years ago. And again 8 or so years ago. Along with the lead smelter joke mentioned above.

Guns, gun accessories, and ammo are going to be items that regularly are hard to find and expensive.

People in this world are generally unprepared. Even though this is the third such major drought in the last 12 years people seem to have a short memory. And they don’t listen to all the warnings that they should be buying guns and ammo when such things are plentiful and cheap.

Toilet paper is a great example. We literally just went through a TP shortage about 8 months ago. In the last few months TP has been widely available again but I’ll guarantee we have members who only have enough to make it a couple weeks.

Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

Or ignore the past and the warnings, wait until it’s too late and go buy the 1000 rounds of target 9mm for 700 bucks the guy is trying to sell in the classifieds.


Didn't there use to be a rule about price gouging?
 
Posts: 1128 | Location: Washington PA | Registered: November 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kuisis:
Didn't there use to be a rule about price gouging?


I guess the mice get their chance to play when the eagle's taking a nap.
 
Posts: 26305 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
teacher of history
Picture of maxwayne
posted Hide Post
Here is what Powder Valley has to say on the subject:
https://www.powdervalleyinc.co...mer-supply-shortage/
 
Posts: 4937 | Registered: March 04, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by Kuisis:
Didn't there use to be a rule about price gouging?


I guess the mice get their chance to play when the eagle's taking a nap.


I’ve reported the thread.




Georgia Carry MemberNRA Lifetime Member

“With no police to protect you, did you own a gun? Did your neighbor?” - The Division 2

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 13782 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Where is that rule some of you refer to? I looked in classifieds under rules to adhere and didn't see it.
 
Posts: 336 | Location: East Texas | Registered: June 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bustabuddy:
Where is that rule some of you refer to?


Most of the desires of the owners of the forum are not spelled out in a formal list of rules, but long term members have seen them discussed over time. When there have been shortages of ammunition or equipment in the past, parabellum has sometimes objected to specific for sale offers as what is being referred now to price “gouging.” I recall its being applied to AR-15 type rifles and certain (9mm P239) magazines, and the sellers’ being told to desist or threads’ being deleted (IIRC).

Price gouging is of course one of those “eye of the beholder” things. Many people object very strongly if someone offers a product that’s in short supply and high demand at a higher price than it would have sold for in previous “normal” times.
There are, however, several counterargument factors that others raise.

The first is probably the ancient economic principle of supply and demand: when supplies are low for any reason and demand is high for any reason, prices of anything go up: as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. As I’ve questioned elsewhere, what if the average price for a case of 9mm training ammunition rises to $700 in the near future and never goes back down? What will shooters do then—besides whine about it on the Internet?

Another fact that supporters of free markets point out is that if sellers can charge what they want, then at least there is some supply of scarce commodities, such as 9mm ammunition today. Without ammunition, guns are no more useful to their owners than Beanie Babies. They may still take pride in owning them, and they might be nice to handle and look at, but that’s all they are. As a consequence, many people are more than willing—eager in fact—to purchase ammunition at any price they can afford. And that means that more people are willing to dip into their own stashes in exchange for those higher prices, and at least some people can shoot their guns. The prices haven’t risen high enough for me to do that, but it’s conceivable they could, especially if I needed the money (which I don’t).

A past example of demand and supply were the people who went to the trouble of renting trucks and purchasing generators in one part of the country to take and sell in hurricane damaged areas. They invested their own money, time, and effort into their endeavors with the motive of making a profit, and the people who bought the generators from them were more than glad that they had the opportunity to do so. When such endeavors have been shut down by the government in the past, no one made any profit, but no one had the generators they had been willing to buy.

Assumptions people make is a factor as well. If someone sells a generator for twice what it would have cost a month ago, people assume that the seller’s costs and expenses were what Home Depot’s were a month ago, and of course that’s usually ridiculously false. In the case of an individual’s selling ammunition, we assume that he bought it a year ago at less than half the price he’s asking now. But if we don’t know the seller and his circumstances, that assumption is made in total ignorance. If he spent weeks searching for the ammo, had to drive 100 miles to pick it up, and paid $600 per case, is asking $700 “gouging”?

In any event, though, the “rule” here about asking higher than “normal” prices for scarce commodities is an unwritten one. Perhaps we will see if it is applied in this case.




“The most common reaction to a life-or-death situation is to do nothing.”
— Amanda Ripley, The Unthinkable: who survives when disaster strikes and why (New York: Three Rivers Press, 2008)
 
Posts: 42923 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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