oh Yeah

Yeah

OH YEAH??

...

(come on dude, why are you stirring this particular pot? what's your point or objective? let's at least have a discussion about the risks of his idea... his thoughts / answers to the many objections raised here would be a good start, or we can fart around with insults?)

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
See that Dtech, your opinion couldn't possibly be based on thought-out logic. You should assume that whenever your opinions differs from 12131.

Dtech can speak for himself, if he wants to.

quote:

Originally posted by FishOn:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by rh:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Folks, it's time to flood the NRA with your view on this issue. Unbelievable cowards.

I guess that I should have posted the entire text of the NRA's recently released statement. (Prior post edited.) The NRA seems to want to trade banning bump stocks in exchange for passing a National Right-to-Carry bill.

JALLEN did state that deals were being made.

The deal that counts is the one that Congress might approve and the President sign.

To get there, the Congresscritters are surveying their supporters, who will support what. Various proposals and combinations will be floated to see what support there might be.


The NRA lobbyists will be active, as will every other group that has an interest or position to protect or advance. Lots of pressure!

Remember, a controversial position only costs you votes. A courageous one costs you re-election.

Exactly. Bump stocks are toast. They have made the decision.

I don’t think the “decision” is made. We haven’t really started the chest thumping and hollering yet.

If the NRA and its devotees are as powerful as they would have you believe, there is no chance of getting anything done.

OTOH, it may be that some wheeling and dealing will result in some sort of deal, as I speculated earlier. Everybody is seen to prevail.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Time to call the NRA. I am against national CCW and the banning of anything bump fire.

Both of those things will lead to nothing but draconian bans and restrictions in the future.

Right on. What was it you used to say about certain folks and a roll of quarters?

Cant say that Im too happy with the NRA right now, but I have trouble believeing this doesnt have some strategy too it. They arent asking for legislation to ban bumpfire stocks; They are asking for the ATF to review the regulations that made it legal. To me it seems that if its already been reviewed twice and determined to be legal, and no new legislation was passed, then most likely it would remain legal. Im tired of getting emotional and pissed off at every press release that comes out. We need to stay calm, continue to support the NRA itself, and let them hear our voice regarding this issue. It may be nothing more than a “punt”, a delay tactic. We need to buy time until SCOTUS and the lowet courts get stacked our way, then were golden. Remain calm, stand with the NRA publicly, but do make sure to let them hear from you within the proper channels.

The idea of compromise suggests each side give something up and each side gets something return.

There can be no “compromise” when one side has nothing to offer in the first place and accepting less than what it wants (complete ban, 2A repeal, etc.) is *NOT* giving something up, it is just deciding to ask for less.

This is the best explanation of the concept I can offer....

^^^^^^^^^^^
Excellent!
__________

Absolutely insane! I knew there would be people selling bump stocks now for a jacked up price so I thought I would look at Gun Broker to see and they are selling for $300 to $1,600 for just the stock! The one at $1,600 started out at $200 and has 28 bids to get it to the price it is now. That is insane for a device that is not worth even installing.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
Why is the stock different from shooting fast?

Because a finger, regardless of how good or strong you are is self limiting. It is simple physiology. A mechanical device or component is generally not and requires a fraction of the effort and skill which is exactly why the shooter in Las Vegas used it. If any of you can empty a Beta-C mag at a rate even close to a full auto AR or one with a bump stock, in semi-auto only without missing a beat, breaking a sweat, or having to switch fingers, even with a lower poundage trigger, or know of a video that exists, please post it. I've looked at a couple of videos of both methods and have yet to see a video or anyone in person at the many venues I've been that can do it and their rate of fire was nowhere near full auto or even the low end of a bump stock. Even Jerry M. himself maxes out at about 5 rounds per second (300/min) from an AR and he CAN'T do it for a minute straight, let alone 10 minutes. It is physically impossible.

Careful with the argument that anyone can shoot a semi-auto as fast as a full auto. The liberals can and will try to use THAT argument against all of us regardless of the truth, specifics, and variables of that claim.

Again, I am not being emotional at all about this, yet some keep mentioning it. Seems to me that the heated emotion and passion has been running heavily in my direction though. I can respect passionate debate and discussion, even if I don't agree with it. Personal attacks and insults, not so much.

^ Clear and easy enough for everyone from children on upwards to understand (the cartoon).

It's like having to barter with thieves to get part of your shit back after a lifetime of robberies, and the thief having the audacity to act like they're doing you a favor by not taking more or by returning a piece of something stolen previously - but only if you give them some other shit that belongs to you and hadn't been stolen yet.

And this situation with the NRA and some members here, this is like your own wife or brother screwing you over by giving the thief some of your shit proactively via some idiotic strategy that's resigned to the notion that "they're going to rob you anyway, may as well save such-and-such".

It's textbook giving up, laying down, refusing to fight, getting fucked over, and it is ridiculous, and dangerous, and not going to accomplish a damn thing of substance, except to further whittle down what's already an enormous cluster fuck caused by similarly minded folks, similarly well intended folks, all of whom are mistaken and misguided.

(And understand, I've never even seen a bump stock in person that I'm aware of, and I have zero interest in them, but I can recognize a pointless and unnecessary endeavor that only hurts us, saves no one, and gets nothing whatsoever in return. A colossally bad deal.)

quote:

Originally posted by Dtech:
I can respect passionate debate and discussion, even if I don't agree with it. Personal attacks and insults, not so much.

Well, I'm still not quite sure what exactly you're advocating here for because the issue--the real issue--is not bump stocks; it's semi-automatic firearms. So again, are you of the position that government should limit or regulate how fast I can pull the trigger, or do you simply want to ban semi-autos outright?

To both, those are yes or no questions.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtech:
Because a finger, regardless of how good or strong you are is self limiting. It is simple physiology. A mechanical device or component is generally not and requires a fraction of the effort and skill which is exactly why the shooter in Las Vegas used it. If any of you can empty a Beta-C mag at a rate even close to a full auto AR or one with a bump stock, in semi-auto only without missing a beat, breaking a sweat, or having to switch fingers, even with a lower poundage trigger, or know of a video that exists, please post it.

Sigh. Once again, one does not need to actuate their finger to bump fire. They do not need a stock. It can be done, just as fast and as smooth, by hooking ones hand securely and allowing the rifles recoil to rock the trigger against the finger.

What do you propose to do to someone who bump fires a Beta mag by hooking his thumb on a belt loop and seamlessly sending 100 rounds downrange? It is possible. Do you charge them with manufacturing a machine gun? Arrest them for shooting too fast? Your ideas on this subject are absolutely ridiculous. Bump firing does not create an automatic weapon, so quit telling people they need to "do it right" and get a tax stamp. You keep taking about rate of fire, something that has NOTHING TO DO WITH AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. Not legally, and not in the technical sense. PLEASE tell us how fast one is allowed to shoot. Give us a number. I want to know how many rounds per minute you find acceptable. Cause you know what the left's number will be? ONE.

This "logic" is what got us the original AWB, and it's what will lead to the elimination of semi automatic firearms.

When Pelosi was asked about the concerns of some that a bump stock ban will become a slippery slope, she responded "I certainly hope so"

So much for our side being "reasonable".

I know I'm wading into the lions den but I won't shed a tear when they are banned. I was shocked they were permitted in the first place.

I think they should just outlaw using a 'device' to simulate automatic fire.

You can still use your belt loop if you really want but you'd be breaking the law. Just like I can put a stock on my AR pistol, but I'd be breaking the law.

With the GOP in charge, we have a chance of a clean bill with a narrow scope and no overreach.
The reason universal background checks failed is because the Dems packed them full of other restrictions and bull crap.

Feel free to flame away.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I know I'm wading into the lions den but I won't shed a tear when they are banned. I was shocked they were permitted in the first place.

I think they should just outlaw using a 'device' to simulate automatic fire.

You can still use your belt loop if you really want but you'd be breaking the law. Just like I can put a stock on my AR pistol, but I'd be breaking the law.

Feel free to flame away.

Give me a number on what is an "acceptable" civilian rate of fire. Don't guess, I want it based on some solid logic and fact. Until someone can do that, quit trying to trade away my RIGHTS to assuage YOUR FEELINGS.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
I know I'm wading into the lions den but I won't shed a tear when they are banned. I was shocked they were permitted in the first place.

I think they should just outlaw using a 'device' to simulate automatic fire.

You can still use your belt loop if you really want but you'd be breaking the law. Just like I can put a stock on my AR pistol, but I'd be breaking the law.

Feel free to flame away.

Give me a number on what is an "acceptable" civilian rate of fire. Don't guess, I want it based on some solid logic and fact.

That's completely unnecessary and not relevant to the conversation.

You guys wanting to equate bump fire with pulling the trigger real fast is just going to muddy the waters.

If the legislation is limited to a 'device' then it's immaterial to how fast someone can pull a trigger.

As mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter how fast you can pull the trigger because you physically cannot keep that up for a sustained period of time. There's nothing to get tired when you are bump firing.

You just said you want to make it illegal to stick you finger in a belt loop!!!

How fast can I shoot my gun? NO MECHANICAL DEVICES. How fast?

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
You just said you want to make it illegal to stick you finger in a belt loop!!!

How fast can I shoot my gun? NO MECHANICAL DEVICES. How fast?

Not sure if srs but whatever.

Using your belt loop would to bump fire would be illegal.

Shoot your gun as fast as you want without using anything to assist you, I don't care and it's not relevant to the conversation.

Wow! Some people will never get it. Hey, I don't care for it, it doesn't affect me. Ban away.

And, with that, I'm out.

I'd be willing to trade banning bump fire stocks for legalizing fully automatic weapons.

There is no legitimate use for bump fire stocks which can not be effectively aimed.
Only use is terrorism or wasting ammo.

Automatic weapons are useful in defense of our nation and protection from an over zealous government and should rightfully be protected under the 2nd Amendment.

To clarify for those wishing to nitpick, I know full autos are legal with enough money and tax stamp. By legalize I mean new production.