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Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
posted
These are my quotes from local, supposedly reputable companies from all the research I have been able to find. Assuming the install quality is the same, which seems like the best return for the money? I have a fourth Lennox contractor coming, but it is also the most busy, slowest to respond. I expect similar pricing on similar systems, but we will see. The Bryant dealer had the most limited/unfavorable financing options. The rest were the same on financing options.

NONE did load calculations. All are based on our existing system, our experience with it, how we like to run the AC and heat (very cold for both!), 1500 sq ft 20 yr old house. We have a Sensi thermostat already. Install is in a garage closet easily accessed and close to the AC pad and 4 ft crawl space. Most are reusing our Sensi with new wiring. We currently have a 3 ton unit. We do not want to be hot ever. Our humidity inside is almost always 45-50% summer and winter using a console humidifier.

The Carrier pricing is surprising – I feel like I am missing something here regarding the equipment, quality or they mis-quoted. I could go back to the Carrier dealer for a Trane quote as well – I only got a 80% quote for Trane which was basically the same price.

Carrier
59TP6-080 96% variable ECM (non-communicating) 1” filter
24ACB3-30 2.5 ton 14 SEER
Aprilaire 500m
TOTAL $7,400 (minus some local rebates - $300-400ish)

Lennox EL196DF090XE48C
96% efficient single stage, Constant Torque DC motor, furnace with Aprilaire media cabinet and filter
Lennox CR33-30/36C coil (IS THIS A DECENT ONE - NOT LAWSUIT ONE?)
Lennox XC13N-036 3 ton AC
$9,200 plus $450 for Aprilaire 500m = $9,650 - $415 rebates=
TOTAL $9,235

Lennox EL296DF090XE48C
96% efficient 2 stage furnace, Constant Torque DC motor, with Aprilaire media cabinet and filter
Lennox CR33-30/36C coil
Lennox XC13N-036 3 ton AC
$9,750 plus $450 for Aprilaire 500m = 10,200 - $535 rebates =
TOTAL $9,665

Lennox EL296DF090XV60C 96%, ECM variable, 2 stage furnace, wi-fi stat
with Aprilaire media cabinet and filter
Lennox CR33-30/36C coil
Lennox XC13N-036 3 ton AC
$10,070 plus $450 for Aprilaire 500m = 10520 - $535 rebates =
TOTAL $9985

Possible upgrades:
Upgrade w/quieter Lennox EL16XC1-036 for additional $520.00, w/additional $150.00 rebate.

Upgrade w/Lennox XC16-036 2 stage for additional $1,935.00, w/additional $150.00 rebate
TOTAL = too much


Bryant Legacy 95% single stage furnace, 1” filter
Bryant 13 SEER AC
$7900 plus fan humidifier $550 or bypass humidifier $475

Bryant Preferred 96% Two-stage furnace, 1” filter
Bryant Preferred 2-stage 17 SEER A/C
$9800 ($8700 with 13 SEER AC) plus fan humidifier $550 or bypass humidifier $475
(some local rebates)

I am guessing we will be in the home at least 10 years more.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Eschew Obfuscation
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We just had a new Lennox unit installed.

I highly recommend taking the time to read the HVAC threads here that have covered this subject exhaustively.

(Nutshell: It's the installer you need to focus on, not the equipment. Smile )


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NRA Endowment Life Member; ISRA Member
_____________________________________________________________________

“The Left want to be our shepherds. But that requires us to be sheep.” ― Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 4561 | Location: Chicago, IL | Registered: December 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CoolRich59:
We just had a new Lennox unit installed.

I highly recommend taking the time to read the HVAC threads here that have covered this subject exhaustively.

(Nutshell: It's the installer you need to focus on, not the equipment. Smile )


I have many times. As far as I have been able to determine, the companies quoted are good companies in business for a long time with good reviews. All have some negative reviews but virtually all deal with repairs only and pricing for them, not new systems.

At this point I am trying to compare the hardware and prices.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Victim of Life's
Circumstances
Picture of doublesharp
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I buy Goodman/Amana and am well satisfied. Pay no attention to those that will trash the Goodman brand based on 1990s product. Goodman is an entirely different company now.



Support your own damn self and leave me the hell alone - Kurt Schlichter's Red, White And Blue New Deal
 
Posts: 3093 | Location: Sunnyside of Louisville | Registered: July 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fiber optic
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The Carrier guy only quoted you a 2.5 ton system when the others are quoting 3s?

I'm at the point now where I'd avoid anyone not doing a load calculation. I had our system replaced a few years ago. Two people quoted 5 ton without a calculation and one quoted a 4 ton with the calculation. This was to replace a 4 ton system. As it turned out the tube to the unit ,from filter to evaporator coil, was undersized. This was discovered by the guy doing the load calculation. He got the sale, if it wasn't obvious.

I shudder to imagine the horrors of putting a 5 ton AC on the end of that drinking straw. Nevermind that it was going to be too large for my house.

If it makes any difference the quote I got was roughly 10k. Bryant brand 4 ton packaged unit 16 SEER AC with natural gas furnace both have 2-stage operation, replacement of undersized tube, new thermostat, and they eliminated one of the goofy sized filters I had (16x30) when they installed a more efficient grate on the 20x30.




The universe is hostile
So impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is, so it's always been

 
Posts: 1368 | Registered: November 28, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fiber optic:
The Carrier guy only quoted you a 2.5 ton system when the others are quoting 3s?

I'm at the point now where I'd avoid anyone not doing a load calculation. I had our system replaced a few years ago. Two people quoted 5 ton without a calculation and one quoted a 4 ton with the calculation. This was to replace a 4 ton system. As it turned out the tube to the unit ,from filter to evaporator coil, was undersized. This was discovered by the guy doing the load calculation. He got the sale, if it wasn't obvious.

I shudder to imagine the horrors of putting a 5 ton AC on the end of that drinking straw. Nevermind that it was going to be too large for my house.

If it makes any difference the quote I got was roughly 10k. Bryant brand 4 ton packaged unit 16 SEER AC with natural gas furnace both have 2-stage operation, replacement of undersized tube, new thermostat, and they eliminated one of the goofy sized filters I had (16x30) when they installed a more efficient grate on the 20x30.


He was the first quote and did discuss that point. He said he would do the 3 if I wanted but based on just square footage and location he thought 2.5 would be a better fit. He was the first quote. The last guy said everything is sized for 3 ton. I expected more from all regarding calculations but at the same time we have been comfortable with our current system.

I think the 3 ton like we have may be better suited since we run it colder, have vaulted ceilings, skylights, and about 6” insulation.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Is 'non of the above' an option?

The closest one is the first and last one.

First, have a media filter installed (not a 1" filter) and an automatic control for humidifier.

Last, make sure the furnace is variable speed. Go with the 13 SEER option and have them install a media filter with the bypass humidifier (Make sure to get an automatic humidistat).




 
Posts: 7856 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
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I keep asking about the automatic humiidifier by Aprilaire. Only the Lennox dealer understood since they are an Aprilaire company but for some reason did not like the automatic with the outdoor sensor. I like the idea of it and may renegotiate on that point if I go with them.

I seem to be getting two different variable speed versions. Some seem to be self-controlled, non-communicating thermostat options and then I see the fully variable, communicating types that run a lot more $.

Given these systems and local prices, do you have a suggestion as to a specific setup I should ask for a quote on? As mentioned, the Carrier dealer also offers Trane.

What seemed bad about the third Lennox aside from the manual humidifier? The price does seem high.

I'm seriously considering all options, but would prefer to stay under $10k.

I have one final contractor coming in the morning - I could really unload on this one with questions and specific requests.

This feedback is hugely appreciated.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm a full state south of you.
15yo 1640sq ft + unfinished basement (4 registers down there).
My 2.5 ton will cool plenty - so much so that I have to balance dehumidification with the fact that the wife wants to keep it warmer (72 & I'd prefer 70).

Get a load calc done.
 
Posts: 2568 | Location: IN | Registered: January 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by snidera:
Get a load calc done.
Yeah, I think this is good advice. As to Lennox, I priced it for our last home retrofit and it was unreasonably expensive. As to the Bryant system you were quoted, the only thing about the Bryant Evolution system I replaced late last year I actually liked was the extended warranty given it was used often. Doing a bit of research, the Bryant Evolution systems were not well loved because of their complexity/reliability.

I'll second another poster's recommendation to price a Goodman system. Whether you opt to buy it or not, it will offer additional costing perspective which is alway good. And you'll find the Goodman/Amana warranty to be about the same as all the rest, so no real advantage or disadvantage there.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 28447 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
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Daikin was the budget option, that now owns Goodman. I didn’t get a quote.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by Oz_Shadow:
Daikin was the budget option, that now owns Goodman. I didn’t get a quote.
Daikin is a huge international company. Go ahead and get a quote just for comparison purposes. IMO, paying extra for a Lennox system buys you nothing over the other manufacturers options.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 28447 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not a fan of Lennox and their pricing.
Automatic humidistat takes more time to install... so, not as popular, but its what YOU want (simplicity).

Skip the Goodman quote. If one thing is for sure, it's hard to find a competent installer... even harder to find one who sells Goodman. They are out there, but you'll look for a long time to locate one. As most competent companies don't want to get an automatic label (bad rep) for selling Goodman.




 
Posts: 7856 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
posted Hide Post
quote:
Automatic humidistat takes more time to install... so, not as popular, but its what YOU want (simplicity).



When I installed mine I asked my HVAC buddy what to get and he specifically said to get the manual. He knows my house and knows I can run 18-2 in minutes if I wanted to. I keep forgetting to ask him why he said do the manual. Just told him to put everything on willcall for me at R.E. Michels that he would if he was doing for his own house. Ended up with a 700m.

I don't have issues with moisture on the windows. Only time I did was when it was in the low teens and I just walked over and turned the dial down a bit.



Jesse

A couple SIGs and a few others
 
Posts: 14283 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Given your temperatures and humidity level, it sounds like a 3 ton is perfect in size.

I'd really check out American Standard.....They're made by Trane and about half (some of) the models, the same equipment as Trane.
 
Posts: 17627 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
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Looks like I am going with contractor # 4 - the biggest and busiest. Apparently for a reason. Quoted a 1 week lead time, which is good, because I am noticing icing on my current AC line that is deteriorating due to critters watering my coils over 22 years.

He did a lot of measurements and ran a load calculation. He came back with a 2.5 ton unit and recommended the lower Lennox series for the AC as the mid tier was $1200 more for a slightly quieter unit. He quoted the best mid-tier furnace only. He said they offer a significant discount because they buy that model in volume.

Lennox EL296V, variable speed, 2 stage, 96% with the ipad like thermostat
Aprilaire 600
5" filter cabinet
Labor and maintenance free for 3 years, 10 yr all parts, lifetime heat exchanger

with the 14ACX 2.5 ton AC (15.10 SEER) is was $7600 all totaled

with the 13ACX 2.5 ton AC (14.50 SEER) it was $7500

the mid-tier XC13 AC (14.50 SEER) jumped up to $8800

Seriously leaning toward the 14ACX quote above so hopefully input here is positive.

The Aprilaire may have been the manual version. No one wants to quote the auto version. It's like pulling teeth for that one.

Thoughts?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Oz_Shadow,
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Character, above all else
Picture of Tailhook 84
posted Hide Post
Load Calculation? Check

Bigger company with volume discounts? Check

Bigger company that will be around to service warranty work? Check

You've done your homework, got multiple bids and ran them by Sig Forum? Check! Big Grin


You'll make up that $100 extra for the 14ACX just in the seer rating alone.




"The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy."
 
Posts: 2151 | Location: West of Fort Worth | Registered: March 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go Vols!
Picture of Oz_Shadow
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
Load Calculation? Check

Bigger company with volume discounts? Check

Bigger company that will be around to service warranty work? Check

You've done your homework, got multiple bids and ran them by Sig Forum? Check! Big Grin


You'll make up that $100 extra for the 14ACX just in the seer rating alone.


My thoughts too. It qualified for a slightly better rebate. I figured 3 years and the $100 difference is covered.
 
Posts: 15486 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A day late, and
a dollar short
Picture of Warhorse
posted Hide Post
We went with Comfortmaker for both heating and AC because that is what my dealer carried. They replaced my 25 year old Bryant furnace four years ago, and recommended leaving the AC until it died because it checked out okay at the time, $2000 just for the furnace, including Honeywell humidifier.

Two years ago the Bryant AC brand went belly up, it was 27 years old at that time. I had them replace the AC with the Comfortmaker AC that matched my furnace, $2000 for the AC. Both units have been completely trouble free so far. Total of $4000 for both, including installation.

http://www.atozheating.com/


____________________________
NRA Life Member, GOA, MGO Annual Member, Annual member MRPA
 
Posts: 11996 | Location: MI | Registered: July 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ermagherd,
10 Mirrimerter!
Picture of ElKabong
posted Hide Post
The Carrier is 13 seer
The Lennox you were quoted is one of their higher models, 15 seer IIRC

That’s some of the price difference
 
Posts: 2427 | Location: WV | Registered: September 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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