quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
I do like the thought that a good installer can turn a piece of shit into a gem...

I think this statement is hopelessly flawed. First, I don't think any HVAC equipment on the market today is 'shit'. There are some that are less complex and maybe even lesser quality (essential to meet differing customer price points), but if a manufacturer were turning out total 'shit', no one would sell or install their stuff. I think it is accurate to suggest that the quality of the installer 'is' one of the most important aspects of a new system install.

quote:

...and that conversely a bad installer will turn a gem into a piece of shit.

I think this is far more likely the case. And though its just my opinion, I believe there to be far more bad/incompetent/unethical installers than good ones out there, so finding the right guy to do your install really becomes challenging.

YES, Rheems are total shit.

Yes some installers can buggar things. BUT, the better brands don't allow unlicensed installers or joe shmoe that works out of the back of their van to buy and install them. Any idiot can go buy a Goodman unit and install it for someone. Try that with Trane or another top tier brand. Just because Goodman uses the same compressor as Trane (for example) does not mean the rest of the unit has the same quality of welds, metals, or parts or design.

Their is a difference between a quality brand and a cheap brand.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
YES, Rheems are total shit.

I always love these sorts of comments. 'If' Rheem was total garbage, they wouldn't sell and the company would go out of business. I personally have had Rheem equipment installed in a number of rentals, and have had no more or less failures with that brand than any other. My experience has been that they tend to work really well for rental properties requiring 2.5 tons or less.

quote:

Any idiot can go buy a Goodman unit and install it for someone. Try that with Trane or another top tier brand.

The only brand I know of I can't personally buy myself is Carrier, and I have zero interest in ever owning another one. As I noted a couple pages back, the issue with just anyone installing a new unit is the warranty. You need a licensed contractor to do the install if you have any hopes of maintaining the manufacturer warranty.

quote:

Their is a difference between a quality brand and a cheap brand.

In $$$ yes, but not so much in quality or reliability anymore. The licensed tech I use to service my home and rentals has repeatedly told me that 'all' current day equipment has been cheapened significantly compared to the units built 15 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
I do like the thought that a good installer can turn a piece of shit into a gem...

I think this statement is hopelessly flawed. First, I don't think any HVAC equipment on the market today is 'shit'. There are some that are less complex and maybe even lesser quality (essential to meet differing customer price points), but if a manufacturer were turning out total 'shit', no one would sell or install their stuff. I think it is accurate to suggest that the quality of the installer 'is' one of the most important aspects of a new system install.

quote:

...and that conversely a bad installer will turn a gem into a piece of shit.

I think this is far more likely the case. And though its just my opinion, I believe there to be far more bad/incompetent/unethical installers than good ones out there, so finding the right guy to do your install really becomes challenging.

YES, Rheems are total shit.

Yes some installers can buggar things. BUT, the better brands don't allow unlicensed installers or joe shmoe that works out of the back of their van to buy and install them. Any idiot can go buy a Goodman unit and install it for someone. Try that with Trane or another top tier brand. Just because Goodman uses the same compressor as Trane (for example) does not mean the rest of the unit has the same quality of welds, metals, or parts or design.

Their is a difference between a quality brand and a cheap brand.

My neighbor just had a Rheem system installed earlier this year and has already had it repaired under warranty. The condenser unit leaked all of the Freon out and the tech had to re-braze a factory joint. The old SEER 10 units Rheem made were a quality system. Unfortunately those are history.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
YES, Rheems are total shit.

I always love these sorts of comments. 'If' Rheem was total garbage, they wouldn't sell and the company would go out of business. I personally have had Rheem equipment installed in a number of rentals, and have had no more or less failures with that brand than any other. My experience has been that they tend to work really well for rental properties requiring 2.5 tons or less.

quote:

Any idiot can go buy a Goodman unit and install it for someone. Try that with Trane or another top tier brand.

The only brand I know of I can't personally buy myself is Carrier, and I have zero interest in ever owning another one. As I noted a couple pages back, the issue with just anyone installing a new unit is the warranty. You need a licensed contractor to do the install if you have any hopes of maintaining the manufacturer warranty.

quote:

Their is a difference between a quality brand and a cheap brand.

In $$$ yes, but not so much in quality or reliability anymore. The licensed tech I use to service my home and rentals has repeatedly told me that 'all' current day equipment has been cheapened significantly compared to the units built 15 years ago.

I have 12 a/c units in either properties I own or manage. I had a new Rheem 2 ton installed in April 2010. Ironically it replaced a Trane that was almost 30 years old. It has been through a condenser fan motor, several blower motors, several other parts. It has been a problem child since day one and has a major issue every 12-18 months. Their overall quality has gone to crap. They offer excellent advertising, financing, and price and that is how Rheem sells units. Meanwhile, I put an American Standard in another identical unit in 2014 and it has had one service call.


As for Goodman, ANYONE can buy them, you don't even have to be licensed. Joe homeowner can buy one on Amazon with free shipping. And, as Excamman always says the installer is the most important aspect of an AC system and to a large degree I too believe that is true. But I also believe that even if the best installer, installs a low quality brand, you still have a problematic low quality brand that was installed correctly. If Goodman as a company doesn't care who installs their systems, then they have no quality control on the end product. I have seen a lot of welds go bad on Goodmans.


What really is the warranty? After a year, they give you free parts, but then the AC dealer tends to charge you an outrageous labor amount generally.


Trane keeps a very tight dealer network. Here in Fort Lauderdale, with a population of 3.5 million people, there are 2 Trane dealers. If you're not a dealer, you're not buying a Trane and installing it for someone. In comparison with their sister company American Standard, there are 29 dealers for the same area. The other top tier brands are similar.


Here in South Florida, it really taxes a unit unlike most other areas in the country. All of the units I own or manage, are within 1/2 a mile of the beach and the salt air does a real number on them, especially Rheems. I saw the condenser literally disintegrate on one of them in 6 years at my mothers house (2001 unit), this was after they had replaced several blower motors, the compressor and other items, she then replaced it with a Goodman in 2007 that had to have the coils braised at 3 years old, failed in 2017 with a bad compressor (granted 10 years is about all you get being 1/8 mile from the beach), and now a Trane. Trane has a patented condenser that isolates the metals (and A.S.) and they tend to do very well. Also the heat load and 330 day a year usage tends to show which brands tend to last longer than others.

Some brands are definitely better than others. Look at all of the coil issues Carrier had and how many units were effected. Some areas of the country where the usage is much less, a lesser unit will still last a long time, sometimes you get lucky......sometimes you get junk.....it's just like anything else...…..there are HK's, SIGs, of the AC world and there are Hi points and Keltechs…….you generally get what you pay for.

I love reading all the comments from people NOT in the HVAC industry, posting like pros.
There's just so many inaccurate statements, that all you can really do, is laugh.