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Member |
I never said Trane was superior to an installer. You’re missing the point. A lower quality product to begin with can’t be made more reliable with a quality install. Just because a system has multiple failures doesn’t mean it was a bad install. Most internal parts failures has absolutely nothing to do with the installer, such as lines rubbing holes in each other where the installer never even touched them. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Member |
Consumer reports. Trane has a failure rate of 17% in the first five years. Goodman 22%. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Ammoholic |
Flame sensor couldn't be cleaned any more, it looked outwardly fine no visible cracks. I was asking general ball park numbers for low end furnace. I think my guess at retail costs are pretty low considering I've heard of people paying $400+ just to replace a capacitor. If I was paying full retail price for repairs. Then I would have probably strapped some tannerite to the machine. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Member |
Negative, he lives in Michigan, which is part of the North's 13 SEER requirement. https://www.achrnews.com/artic...onsiders-enforcement For the area, it's really all that's needed (short AC season). The 13 SEER units are achieving 14 SEER with a variable speed blower. | |||
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Member |
You can tote Trane all you want, I'm not drinking the koolaid. The majority of failures are directly linked to install/setup issues. Yes, there are legitimate manufacturing defects, but those are minimal compared to the amount of overall failures. The failure rates listed above are completely useless. Unless you have controlled conditions, same tech, etc. Just look at tech callbacks and parts getting warrantied, when they are not the issue. | |||
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Member |
Consumer Reports are actual results from owner surveys. No kool aid involved. Anyone who thinks Goodman is as good as or better than Trane/Ingersoll Rand is being disingenuous or Goodman is their house brand. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Member |
I’m interested in seeing data you have to back that up. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Member |
Too funny, consumer reports. Where every install is dependant on many different variables: Equipment sizing Ducting size Combustion air Flue piping Proper evacuations Proper charging Proper piping size Utility connections Set-up Poor filter systems Run times Lack of maintenance Homeowner expectations (from people who know no different) ....the list is endless. And the big one, installers with different levels of competency. Guess what... I don't sell Goodman. Never have. Nor do you see me endorsing any manufacture when it comes to HVAC equipment.
Any tech worth a shit understands how and what causes equipment failures. Give you a simple one... What causes a high limit to fail on a furnace? | |||
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Member |
Give me the data and I’ll answer your question. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Member |
Almost all the parts for every manufacturer are made by the same companies. You can’t relate equipment failures unless as stated before you know that it was installed properly and the homeowner kept up all the required maintenance. I have sold most the major brands and the only ones I shy away from are rheem and Rudd. | |||
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Member |
This was the thing that amazed me the most when I began researching new systems last year prior to replacing ours. The compressor, the most expensive single item of the system, in virtually every cabinet of every manufacturer is either made by Copeland or (I forget the other and am too lazy to go look it up). The primary thing I came away with as a primary difference between manufacturers was the quality of assembly and the quality of the outer cabinet (of course that includes the complexity of the system). And I think there's a whole lot of debate about those topics as well. I still laugh every time I think about the uber expensive, high SEER Bryant Evolution system I bought like 10 years ago. When it arrived onsite on its pallet at my home, the installer had to reference the invoice to determine which badge to put on the cabinet (three badges were included with it). Apparently the same air handler was used for both Carrier (more expensive) and Bryant system installs. So the only difference between Carrier and Bryant at that point in time was the badge the installer stuck on the cabinet and how much cash was liberated from your pocket for one name over another. And for those recommending American Standard as an option, realize they are not available everywhere. Here in Central Florida, I couldn't find anyone who sells and installs American Standard. Trane yes, American Standard, no. Carrier also offers a lower cost option in their Day & Night line, which is also not available in Florida as best I could determine. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Member |
It's ok, I already know why they fail. And when someone wants to play with the big dogs, but doesn't have the knowledge to do so, they always want to play games. I, myself, don't play games, facts are facts and speak for themselves. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors. | |||
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Go Vols! |
I went with the Lennox. The installer is the biggest in the area with plenty of good reviews and did the most thorough estimate process. In this area there are far more Lennox dealers and a distribution center local. Carrier and Bryant dealers were fewer and Trane even less. Thank you everyone for the input, particularly the pros that weigh in. I’ll share pics once installed if anyone cares. | |||
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As Extraordinary as Everyone Else |
Sorry, that’s not correct. That article you quoted is from 2014 and refers to DOE not the IRC which is the building code standard for the entire country and is updated yearly although each state usually only updates on a 3 year cycle. No state that I know of is building on the 2014 or earlier code. ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
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Go Vols! |
Everything in Michigan indicates 13 SEER minimum. Something interesting I found is that a central unit with a 13 designation can be configured to be more efficient based on all components used. | |||
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Member |
Still negative. This is not a HP, or a package unit and doesn't have to be Energy Star rated. N1103.7 (R403.7) Equipment Sizing and Efficiency Ratings (Mandatory) Heating and cooling equipment should be sized in accordance with ACCA Manual S based on building loads calculated in accordance with ACCA Manual J or other approved heating and cooling calculation methodologies. New or replacement heating and cooling equipment shall have an efficiency rating equal to or greater than the minimum required by federal law for the geographical location of where the equipment is installed. DOE requirements brochure (link to pdf file below): https://www.google.com/url?sa=...&cshid=1565016797329 | |||
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Member |
Just food for thought, building codes are adopted by the authority having jurisdiction over construction in each locality. That could be the state for unincorporated areas, and smaller towns, or cities, or even counties or parishes. While the codes in many areas can be similar, they can also vary wildly. Any pissing match over codes is a waste of time. I do like the thought that a good installer can turn a piece of shit into a gem, and that conversely a bad installer will turn a gem into a piece of shit. While there is certainly some truth in the statement that the quality of the installer will effect the quality of the installation, much more would be a stretch. I do love these HVAC threads, they remind me why I do not do any single family work. | |||
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Member |
I think this statement is hopelessly flawed. First, I don't think any HVAC equipment on the market today is 'shit'. There are some that are less complex and maybe even lesser quality (essential to meet differing customer price points), but if a manufacturer were turning out total 'shit', no one would sell or install their stuff. I think it is accurate to suggest that the quality of the installer 'is' one of the most important aspects of a new system install. I think this is far more likely the case. And though its just my opinion, I believe there to be far more bad/incompetent/unethical installers than good ones out there, so finding the right guy to do your install really becomes challenging. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Member |
Since you mentioned some parts are made by the same manufacturers, what is the difference between a Trane compressor made by Copeland and a Copeland made for the other brands? ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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Go Vols! |
The install is done but I may have to have them come back. My unit is in a garage closet. I have extreme condensation on the bypass pipe, drain pipe and 4” new duct box everything sits on. I now understand why my old system had a lot of 2” fiberglass insulation mats. Should a new install in a garage include insulating the exposed ductwork? The dew point has been in the 60s lately. | |||
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