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wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
My thoughts:

Given that

- Muellar has assembled a large team of aggressive prosecutors w DEM leanings

- Muellar and Comey are very close

- Muellar and Rosenstein allowed the Uranium One deal to go forward w/o raising the red flags of so much Russian illegal bribery associated w that deal

then there is no way Muellar is going to pull a Comey and say something like

"Although there is evidence of potential violations, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case"

Muellar is going for indictments.

After over a year of all this investigation, the fact that Muellar's indictments so far (mostly based on things about Manafort that were known in August 2016) would indicate there still isn't any evidence of any Russian collusion.

So the really big question is: Does Muellar have anything that is bad for the Trump campaign ?
 
Posts: 9941 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Glorious SPAM!
Picture of mbinky
posted Hide Post
If Mueller does not find anything I am quite certain he will just make it up. The dems have given him his marching orders to take down Trump, and he will do his best to do that.

I have ZERO, no make that less than zero, respect for the current DOJ or FBI.
 
Posts: 6960 | Registered: June 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
My thoughts:

Given that

- Muellar has assembled a large team of aggressive prosecutors w DEM leanings

- Muellar and Comey are very close

- Muellar and Rosenstein allowed the Uranium One deal to go forward w/o raising the red flags of so much Russian illegal bribery associated w that deal

then there is no way Muellar is going to pull a Comey and say something like

"Although there is evidence of potential violations, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case"

Muellar is going for indictments.

After over a year of all this investigation, the fact that Muellar's indictments so far (mostly based on things about Manafort that were known in August 2016) would indicate there still isn't any evidence of any Russian collusion.

So the really big question is: Does Muellar have anything that is bad for the Trump campaign ?


There is always lying to investigators. Ask Scooter Libby.

If my experience is any guide, FBI agents come in pairs. Unless one (or both) is wearing a wire, there are no recordings of the interview apparent. From their notes, or memory, afterwards, they prepare what are called 302’s, the report of the interview. That becomes the standard by which your statements are measured.

If the 302 says you told them the light was red, and they find other evidence that the light was green, you will be liable to be accused of lying, even if you actually told them the light was green and they misunderstood, or were confused, or simply erred, or you were.

I’ve not seen the 302s from my interviews, but I have made reports to local police/sheriffs and later saw the police reports written up by the investigating LEO. These were not confidence inspiring events.

Given their intense preference for secrecy, I imagine that if you told them you were going to tape your conversation, they would refuse, either consent or participation.

Edit to correct 502 to 302.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JALLEN,




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42910 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/...gag-order/index.html

The federal judge overseeing the case against former Donald Trump campaign aides Paul Manafort and Rick Gates has issued a gag order in the case.

Judge Amy Berman Jackson on Wednesday said the order is necessary to limit the impact on potential jurors.

"In order to safeguard defendants' rights to a fair trial, and to ensure that the court has the ability to seat a jury that has not been tainted by pretrial publicity, all interested participants in the matter, including the parties, any potential witnesses, and counsel for the parties and the witnesses, are hereby ordered to refrain from making statements to the media or in public settings that pose a substantial likelihood of material prejudice to this case," Jackson wrote.
 
Posts: 9941 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/...gag-order/index.html

The federal judge overseeing the case against former Donald Trump campaign aides Paul Manafort and Rick Gates has issued a gag order in the case.


This will ensure that only the prosecution will be able to put out information, and you can bet every 'leak' will be to make Trump look bad.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 26188 | Location: TN/KY | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
yeah right

what else are they doing in secret that gives justice a bad name

how can we trust them?



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45153 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
Judge Amy Berman Jackson


Hmmm...

Lefty judge, likely a lefty jury. I wonder how this is going to go. Roll Eyes


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13358 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Funny Man
Picture of TXJIM
posted Hide Post
Trump should call for a special prosecutor to investigate Uranium One, including Muellers involvement or lack there of...


______________________________
“I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.”
― John Wayne
 
Posts: 5477 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: June 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Given their intense preference for secrecy, I imagine that if you told them you were going to tape your conversation, they would refuse, either consent or participation.



It is my understanding that the FBI not only will not allow you to record these interviews in any form or take notes, you may not have a witness or your attorney present either. Further, often the "notes' are put together after the interview is over based upon what the agents thought they heard.

I cannot imagine why anyone in his/her right mind would agree to be part of such a procedure. Even assuming that the agents were absolutely pure at heart, an assumption not in evidence, the chance of misinterpretation is about 100%.

What possible rational objection could there be for having a video tape of the interview with copies held by both parties, unless of course The DoJ is not really interested in Justice.
 
Posts: 3696 | Location: Citrus County Florida | Registered: October 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
Tony Podesta's firm has fallen apart

https://www.politico.com/story...days-244799?lo=ap_e1

less than two weeks after Podesta stepped down as chairman, the firm he founded 30 years ago may soon shut its doors, with staffers unsure if they’ll be paid after next week.

At an emotional staff meeting late Thursday afternoon, Fritts told staffers they could clear out their offices and said that Wednesday might be their last payday.

“We will try to compensate you on the 30th, but we can’t make any promises,” Fritts said

on Thursday Kimberley Fritts, the firm’s longtime chief executive, abruptly resigned, according to a Podesta Group staffer.


Fritts had been expected to relaunch the Podesta Group under a new name in the days after Podesta stepped down. But she instead announced in the meeting on Thursday that she was leaving to start her own firm after negotiations with Podesta broke down. Her last day was Friday, according to Podesta Group staffers.

Staffers are wondering why a firm that brought in $24 million last year suddenly can’t pay their salaries, and why Podesta and Fritts were unable to strike a deal to transfer ownership of the firm.

“There’s a lot of anger at Tony because of that,” one Podesta Group staffer said.

rival lobbying firms are pursuing the more than 80 clients that the Podesta Group boasted as recently as September
 
Posts: 9941 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:
Trump should call for a special prosecutor to investigate Uranium One, including Muellers involvement or lack there of...

In my opinion, if the FBI and the whole Justice Department were worth a pinch of shit, that would be THEIR job and there would be no need for these Special Prosecutors.


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13358 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
a good article by Andrew McCarthy that contrasts how the DoJ/FBI investigated the Clinton emails, and how they are now investigating Russian "collusion"



http://www.nationalreview.com/...ion-hardball-tactics

"The earth is being scorched by the stunningly large team he has assembled, which includes 16 other prosecutors (among them, Democratic party donors and activists) along with dozens of investigators (mostly from the FBI and IRS)."
 
Posts: 9941 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
Picture of Fenris
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by oldRoger:
quote:
Given their intense preference for secrecy, I imagine that if you told them you were going to tape your conversation, they would refuse, either consent or participation.


It is my understanding that the FBI not only will not allow you to record these interviews in any form or take notes, you may not have a witness or your attorney present either. Further, often the "notes' are put together after the interview is over based upon what the agents thought they heard.

I cannot imagine why anyone in his/her right mind would agree to be part of such a procedure. Even assuming that the agents were absolutely pure at heart, an assumption not in evidence, the chance of misinterpretation is about 100%.

What possible rational objection could there be for having a video tape of the interview with copies held by both parties, unless of course The DoJ is not really interested in Justice.

I was once told (by an agent) that it is not legal to record an FBI interview/interrogation. BSing me? Certainly possible.




The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People again must learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. ~ Cicero 55 BC

The Dhimocrats love America like ticks love a hound.
 
Posts: 15242 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
what makes them so special?

certainly it can't be their credibility?



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45153 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:

I was once told (by an agent) that it is not legal to record an FBI interview/interrogation. BSing me? Certainly possible.


I believe this is true, at least as to FBI policy outside of extraordinary circumstances.

If you are talking voluntarily, and you tell them you will tape it, they can either leave and talk to someone else, or remain, talk and be taped.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42910 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
so what this means is that you can tell the truth, the FBI can then lie about it and you cannot prove yourself innocent?



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45153 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by nhtagmember:
so what this means is that you can tell the truth, the FBI can then lie about it and you cannot prove yourself innocent?


You can never prove yourself innocent. Where’d you get that silly idea?

I seem to remember seeing that the policy changed under AG Holder. I’m trying to run down the info.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42910 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
Ummm …, yes, an FBI agent could lie about what an interviewee said. Any law enforcement officer could lie about what someone said. And, for that matter, any person can lie about what someone else said. Very few human beings don’t have the capability to lie, and very few don’t lie at some time or another.

Recording conversations or interviews was very uncommon at one time. During my investigative career whenever I elicited a confession or other critical information from a suspect or interviewee, I would finish up the process by preparing a statement that I had the individual then review and sign under oath. I’m sure there are exceptions just as there are dishonest people in all walks of life, but as a law enforcement officer I was first and foremost interested in obtaining the truth of the matter under investigation, not in obtaining convictions—and certainly not false convictions. If someone was lying to me, I would try to obtain the truth, but if he persisted, I would still want it recorded in a way that couldn’t be denied later (“I never told him that”). If he was telling the truth, I didn’t want him to have second thoughts later.

I have been fortunate in never having been in a situation that required me to assume that someone like an FBI agent would lie about what I told him. If I ever was, though, I’d just not say anything.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 37276 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
quote:
I seem to remember seeing that the policy changed under AG Holder. I’m trying to run down the info.


posted also in the thread about Sessions considering special prosecutor

The policy put out by Holder is here:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/do...recording-policy.pdf

there is a statement in the policy that says

"This policy also encourages agents and prosecutors to consider electronic recording in investigative or other circumstances where the presumption does not apply."

The points made by Paul Charlton sound valid to me.

An article on how Holder didn't go far enough is here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/h...e-rule/#4b107b047264

"FBI agents routinely conduct their interviews in pairs, with one agent asking the questions and the other taking notes which are eventually typewritten into what is known as a form 302 report. It has previously been strictly against FBI policy to electronically record any of these interviews. Without an objectively accurate, verbatim record of the interview, the witness is compelled, forced even, to follow the script of the 302 report if it is presented in a court of law. If the witness’ testimony strays from the agent’s report, she opens herself up to a felony charge, for either making “false statements” to a federal agent (at the time of the interview) or for perjuring herself on the witness stand. This is how the FBI is able to coerce witnesses (or suspects) and shape their testimony."
 
Posts: 9941 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
^^^ I once had the pleasure of being interviewed by the FBI, and that is exactly how I remember it. Two agents, one asking all the questions. I don't recall if the second one was writing anything down or not.

They also bought me dinner at Bob Evans. Don't know if that's standard protocol or not. Big Grin


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Posts: 12256 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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