SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge First charges filed in Mueller investigation// Treasury Dept employee arrested for leaks
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Manafort defense rests. No witnesses. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
the judge overseeing the trial rejected the motion from Mr Manafort's legal team to throw out the 18 charges against him. | |||
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Member |
Selective prosecution? Political persecution? This has nothing to do with Mueller's assigned task of getting those pesky Russians and proving Trump is in cahoots with Putin. . | |||
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| Member |
What do you make of this, JALLEN? . | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Without being familiar with the evidence, it’s impossible to say with any confidence. These charges are evidenced by documents by and large. It’s usually hard to counter those with witnesses. Maybe the defense feels their best chance is Gates not being credible. In many cases, you want the defendant to take the stand, look the jury in the eye and say “I didn’t do this.” Not much chance to do that here, or prove you were in Baltimore that night. Sometimes you have no defense that will get you off the hook, except reasonable doubt. “If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit.” Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Member |
I have not seen the Rule 29 motion but it looks like the judge saw the prosecution provide sufficient facts on which a jury COULD find "beyond a reasonable doubt," that Manafort committed the crimes charged. Rule 29: (a)Before Submission to the Jury. After the government closes its evidence or after the close of all the evidence, the court on the defendant's motion must enter a judgment of acquittal of any offense for which the evidence is insufficient to sustain a conviction. . . . (c) After Jury Verdict or Discharge. (1) Time for a Motion. A defendant may move for a judgment of acquittal, or renew such a motion, within 14 days after a guilty verdict or after the court discharges the jury, whichever is later. (2) Ruling on the Motion. If the jury has returned a guilty verdict, the court may set aside the verdict and enter an acquittal. If the jury has failed to return a verdict, the court may enter a judgment of acquittal. This is all procedural but denial at this point only means things will continue to the jury. Without seeing all the transcripts, filings and interim rulings, it is hard to know what, if anything, is pending or reserved for appeal or further ruling. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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| Member |
Ha! Where's Johnnie Cochran when you need him? . | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
One exceedingly prominent lawyer had advice for clients who chose not to testify in their own defense. “Bring your toothbrush.” Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
Ouch. Of course this isn't really about taking Manaforte down. It is about putting him into such a bad situation that he gives up some incriminating information on Trump, or fabricates some incriminating information on Trump. . | |||
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Mistake Not... |
Unfortunately with clients often the reverse is true as well. ___________________________________________ Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath. Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
Manafort will be pardoned, that's why he's not flipping on Trump and is giving these Mueller clowns the big middle finger. | |||
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| Made from a different mold  |
So, it's okay to sit on evidence and not bring a case until the political winds change? That's a shady ass practice only a lawyer could conjure. No wonder there isn't much love for them! JALLEN, please don't take this the wrong way, but the way you come off sometimes is that lawyers are short of divinity and us peons are merely snaggle-toothed hillbillies clinging to our guns. Seeing something like this boondoggle is very disturbing to us mindless morons. It shows the duplicitous nature of our legal system and how it can be used after the fact to garner a particular result. Try as you might, there is no denying that Mueller would never have pushed for a trial if Manafort would have dished out some dirt on President DJT! Regardless of the outcome, we have seen how deceitful our government is and there is no putting that genie back in the bottle. For a government (and judicial system) to be just, crimes need to be prosecuted as they happen, not when they are politically convenient! As an American citizen, I am ashamed of how 1 person can be treated so differently than 10 others guilty of the same crime, because of ones' political affiliation. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
You assume facts not in evidence. Many of us lawyers* are merely snaggle-toothed divinities clinging to our guns. Further, you assume that Manafort had dirt to dish sufficient to get him off the hook. Maybe he doesn’t. It’s one thing to sing, quite another to compose. After 40 years of lawyering, you are often disabused of the notion that the U.S. government and its innumerable agents are always as pure as the driven snow. That certainly was not exposed for the first time in this charade, if that is what it is. “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.” H. L. Mencken. That was 100 years or so ago. Before that, it was often even worse. There are plenty of articles and books describing in detail the abysmal, corrupt antics of government agents and employees. Look up and read “Licensed to Lie” by Sydney Powell. Read about one Robert Mueller’s dealings with Whitey Bulgar just to name two. There are countless stories of similar shady lojinks, some of them true. *I should hasten to add that I am not a lawyer anymore, but was for 40 years. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
"So, it's okay to sit on evidence and not bring a case until the political winds change? That's a shady ass practice only a lawyer could conjure." So you are not for restarting the Hillary investigation either? "Top men" looked into her dealings with the foundation, Benghazi, etc, and no charges were brought. Past screw-ups are not to be corrected? It seems that since Manafort was looked into years ago for the same stuff, but politics got in the way and rendered a bad decision not to pursue. Seems to me that this opens the door to reconcile other previous bad decisions. | |||
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| Made from a different mold |
Once a crime has been committed and evidence gathered, there should be no hesitation to prosecute, regardless of who has actually committed the crime. I've watched too many people skate through the system because of who they know and it's shameful. I'd like to see ALL who have committed crimes prosecuted and dealt with accordingly, not because of their politics, skin color, or religion, but rather their crimes. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Or, perhaps there's nothing for him to flip about err on. with. Whatever. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
It may seem easy to blame non prosecution decisions on status, one particular or another. Part of it often is that some crimes are easier to prosecute successfully than others. A 7-11 armed robbery is pretty easy, witnesses, physical evidence, missing cash, these days video probably, and it is simple to show a juror what happened and who did it. Not many defenses when you have the right person. These trial don't usually take weeks to try. Insider trading is a bit tougher. Many jurors have no idea what it is, why it is a crime. You have to prove what happened and how it is different than what is supposed to happen, and explain the documents, pretty boring. These often take a long time to try. Circumstantial evidence cases take longer. Look at OJ! Every prosecutor has considerable, but limited, resources. How to allocate them among a plethora of crimes? There is a lot to it. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
I couldn't agree more, but once you present a case to a US Attorney and are told, "sorry, not the flavor of the week", it puts things in a different perspective on how things work in an overburdoned politically driven system. | |||
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| 10mm is The Boom of Doom  |
The rules don't apply to GDCs, Democrats, or anti-Trumpers. Didn't you get the memo? God Bless and Protect the Once and Future President, Donald John Trump. | |||
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| Made from a different mold |
I'm sorry, were there charges against the Obama lawyer Greg Craig and State Department envoy, Cliff Sloan? ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge First charges filed in Mueller investigation// Treasury Dept employee arrested for leaks
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