There's a lot of negative comments. I thought it was a marvelous performance. Appropriate tempo and great phrasing plus a wonderful use of rubato. Anyway, he's the fucking composer and should know how it ought to be played. He did make the piano roll and apparently approved of it or it never would have been released.
When a thing is funny, search it carefully for a hidden truth. - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 15529 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 03, 2007
Maybe those people don't understand there's been a few changes in technology since then. Maybe have then see what a 1913 car looked and how it drove. And it didn't have a radio.
I’ve seen and heard played two Welte Mignon players, both in the little town I grew up in, Sebastopol, CA. One was owned by a friend who was a piano tuner; the other by an older man who had hired my stepfather to paint his house. My stepfather took me to his wonderful studio as one of the great surprises of my life. Mr. Eddy had a very large collection of Welte piano rolls by illustrious pianists of the early 20th century, e.g. Paderewski. Unfortunately, Mr. Eddy’s brother IIRC sold it all off after his death so I believe the collection was scattered to the four winds. IIRC the major difference between the Welte and the usual player pianos was that not just the note but the touch could also be recorded and played back, so the recording was much more accurate than, e.g. hearing George Gershwin play Rhapsody in Blue on a piano roll.
Speaking of obsolete technology no one wants, would any of you give a good home to an 1894 pump/reed organ? It was bought new by my wife’s grandparents. It’s quite lovely.
_________________________ “ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
Posts: 18515 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004
All the surviving evidence for the Welte-Mignon suggests that Welte's recording methods were relatively straightforward, using materials and mechanical designs that were already in use and readily available at its factory in Freiburg. However, since the company kept its dynamic recording processes secret, there is no authoritative description that was written by the original inventors or operators. It is abundantly clear, however, to any musician studying the performances on original Welte-Mignon music rolls, that the company had to have developed some means of recording and converting the dynamic information quite automatically. With most other reproducing piano systems, there is often the feeling that the dynamics have been carefully crafted by a roll editor; there is a tendency to use the complete gamut, from pianissimo to fortissimo, for every roll, just to prove that the particular system can do it. In the case of the Welte-Mignon, however, there can be astounding realism at some of the most insignificant moments, and on occasions a certain lack of detail when the musical texture becomes too complex - both signs of an automated process.
Welte dynamic coding is also difficult to edit effectively, since it is based on crescendos and diminuendos, which have an effect on all subsequent notes, until one of the various dynamic limits is reached. Ampico was not dissimilar, but it had an extensive and well-documented editing department, with dozens of musicians and technicians, whose traces remained in existence well into the 1990s, whereas Welte simply did not. And Welte, uniquely amongst the main four roll recording companies, did not encourage its pianists to participate in the editing process. Indeed, there was virtually no editing process: pianists could listen to their rolls once perforated, and if they were unsatisfied with them, they could choose to record them again, but there was no suggestion of the original recordings being alterable in any way.
_________________________ “ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
Posts: 18515 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004
Two Welte Mignon devices appear to be on sale at this Link.
_________________________ “ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
Posts: 18515 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004
Those devices were/are capable of excellent playbacks of actual performances, if properly maintained and adjusted. In some ways they are superior to other recording techniques because they use an actual instrument to make the music.
Originally posted by sjtill: I’ve seen and heard played two Welte Mignon players, both in the little town I grew up in, Sebastopol, CA. One was owned by a friend who was a piano tuner; the other by an older man who had hired my stepfather to paint his house. My stepfather took me to his wonderful studio as one of the great surprises of my life. Mr. Eddy had a very large collection of Welte piano rolls by illustrious pianists of the early 20th century, e.g. Paderewski. Unfortunately, Mr. Eddy’s brother IIRC sold it all off after his death so I believe the collection was scattered to the four winds. IIRC the major difference between the Welte and the usual player pianos was that not just the note but the touch could also be recorded and played back, so the recording was much more accurate than, e.g. hearing George Gershwin play Rhapsody in Blue on a piano roll.
Speaking of obsolete technology no one wants, would any of you give a good home to an 1894 pump/reed organ? It was bought new by my wife’s grandparents. It’s quite lovely.
Where are you located? I have an organ and play in church occasionally and have a friend who is an organ performance graduate and is quite talented.
Thanks, Maestro. I was hoping you would see the post. I've listened to it many times appreciate it more after each hearing.
Doc - If I were very wealthy, I'd have a nice Steinway, a Welte Mignon player or two and collect those rolls. There was a guy back in the 70s who had a program on NPR where he played and commented on these recordings. I can't recall his name right now, but Google will no doubt come to the rescue tomorrow morning. YouTube probably has all of that available.
As Scarlet said:
When a thing is funny, search it carefully for a hidden truth. - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 15529 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 03, 2007
Originally posted by Jim Shugart: Thanks, Maestro. I was hoping you would see the post. I've listened to it many times appreciate it more after each hearing.
Doc - If I were very wealthy, I'd have a nice Steinway...
Don't sell yourself short with the Steinway. Bosendorfer, Fazioli, and Steingraeber and Sohne make better instruments. That being said, I wouldn't turn down a Steinway, especially a Hamburg Steinway.
For sure, different than I've ever heard it played, and better. I'm thankful that there was technology capable of capturing his performance back then. Simply amazing.
A lot of the comments on the video surprise me. Mostly people saying he played it so fast because they were only capable of recording songs up to about four minutes in length. I find this dubious. I think he played it the way he wanted it heard. Can anyone weigh in on that?
______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est
Wonderful! It is more emotionally rich than most renditions, sweeping you along, as powerful feelings do, and then catching itself up in delicate and subtle reflections. Beautiful. Thanks for posting, Jim.
Originally posted by P220 Smudge: For sure, different than I've ever heard it played, and better. I'm thankful that there was technology capable of capturing his performance back then. Simply amazing.
A lot of the comments on the video surprise me. Mostly people saying he played it so fast because they were only capable of recording songs up to about four minutes in length. I find this dubious. I think he played it the way he wanted it heard. Can anyone weigh in on that?
I have no doubt that this is the way he intended it to be heard, but that's just my opinion. They used a lot more rubato in the 19th and early 20th Centuries.
"It is impossible to attain a greater perfection of reproduction than that of the Welte apparatus. I am happy to assure you in these lines of my astonishment and admiration of what I heard. I am, Dear Sir, Yours Faithfully, Claude Debussy." Link
When a thing is funny, search it carefully for a hidden truth. - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 15529 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 03, 2007
