He went in, faced his fears, defeated the enemy which turned out to be himself and continued his training. That doesn’t seem like a failure.

Because he resorted to using anger and violence when facing his fear, despite Yoda's instructions to leave his weapons behind. That way leads to the dark side.

Yoda wanted him to be able to come to peace with the truth about his father, find the good within, and bring Vader back to the light side, not slay him. Which is what Luke ended up doing in the end, after again resorting to anger and violence when faced with the Emperor's attack on the Rebel fleet. Luckily, he was able to come to his senses at the last minute after wounding his father, rather than fully giving in to his fear and anger and falling to the dark side like his father did.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Because he resorted to using anger and violence when facing his fear, despite Yoda's instructions to leave his weapons behind. That way leads to the dark side.

Yoda wanted him to be able to come to peace with the truth about his father, find the good within, and bring Vader back to the light side, not slay him. Which is what Luke ended up doing in the end, after again resorting to anger and violence when faced with the Emperor's attack on the Rebel fleet. Luckily, he was able to come to his senses at the last minute after wounding his father, rather than fully giving in to his fear and anger and falling to the dark side like his father did.

I see. I was looking at it short term and not seeing the big picture.

Who said it was a failure. His failure was lifting the x-wing out of the swamp. I just rewatched the scene and failure was never mentioned.

He did disregard wisdom before entering when Yoda told him he didn't need weapons. He still took them anyway and caved to fear.

Who knows how it would have turned out if he didn't take his saber and blaster. He drew first when encountering Vader/himself.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
Who said it was a failure. ...

Yoda calls it a failure a few scenes later. I think it’s when he’s leaving to save Han and Leia.

quote:

Yoda:
Yes, yes! To Obi-Wan you listen. The cave! Remember your failure at the cave!

Yeah, I forgot about that.

Sounds like a pickup line at a nerd convention.

Because Luke shows up until the end when he turns into a Force Ghost, that he is self centered.

All his journey and all his failures are because he sees himself as the "chosen one" and that he is somehow the focal point in the grand scheme.

He is not. When he finally realizes he is simply a component, and that the "Jedi Machine" requires all its parts to be in harmony, none more important, and none insignigfigant, he is no different than a Sith, except that he is not "called by that name".

Once he reconciles that the power of the Force is not the end all be all goal, but the power of selflessness, then he becomes more powerful, able to project himself and be "used" for/by the Force, rather than "using the Force for himself" that he fulfills his destiny, and then able to shuffle off into the Force field...

It is akin to a relay race, just give all you got to hand the baton to the next. The race is not yours, you belong to the race.

Because Moses struck the rock with his staff instead of just speaking to it.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
Because Moses struck the rock with his staff instead of just speaking to it.

yeah and he pissed God off when he did too

I look at it more as a lesson. Luke confronted the greatest evil (for him up to this point) in the cave, Darth Vader. He immediately fought with Vader and beheading him, only to reveal himself in the helmet. Meaning for me (and Luke), that he carried the same potential for evil and Dark side as Vader. I think the only way to have won in the cave was to go into a deep Force trance to ignore the attack of the vision, which is something probably only a few Jedi Masters could have done. For me this was a lesson that Yoda wanted Luke to have that he had the same potential for the Dark side (just like most Force users) and that in defeating Vader by using anger, he would just become Vader. I think Yoda kept referring to it as a failure to reinforce the lesson.

For me, the lesson was that Luke did not need his light saber in the first place. Yoda said something like "Your weapons - you will not need them." Luke defaulted to fear or aggression, and immediately walked in with his saber lit.

I saw this as him operating out of fear, or from a predisposition to immediately turn to violence to solve his problems. Yoda said that the Force should only be used for defense, whereas the Sith use it for offense. I think Luke's failure was to lead off with his light saber, instead of trusting Yoda and going in without his weapons. Seeing himself in Vader's helmet was a foreshadowing that he was very much like his father, and was only a couple bad decisions away from turning evil.