quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Wow, this thread has been useful as I was starting to look at new cars down the road to replace my Mazda5 and a Subaru was one of them.

It's not going to be now after all these accounts of the infotainment screen disaster.

I was also looking at a Honda CRV and realized they just turned it into an ugly giant box-like thing that is like the size of what a Pilot was. Nope.

I guess I'll be going Mazda again

I didn't find the infotainment to be difficult nor slow.
Paired quickly for AndroidAuto, just a small learning curve compared to my 2 Sync3 Fords.
Mazda & Subaru would be in my shortlist if I were shopping right now.

Really like how the CX-50 & upcoming CX-70 look on the Mazda side.
Crosstrek would probably be my first look on the Subaru side, since the Forester didn't do much for me when I looked at it a couple years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I was also looking at a Honda CRV and realized they just turned it into an ugly giant box-like thing that is like the size of what a Pilot was. Nope.

That size has been taken over by the HRV. They expanded the Pilot to a three row SUV and moved the CRV to the size of the old Pilot. I've been disappointed a lot by Honda over the last 10 years. They use to be fun to drive and now they're turned into appliances just like Toyota. Hell, Toyota has had the flashier designs recently which is makes Honda even more depressing.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I was also looking at a Honda CRV and realized they just turned it into an ugly giant box-like thing that is like the size of what a Pilot was. Nope.

That size has been taken over by the HRV. They expanded the Pilot to a three row SUV and moved the CRV to the size of the old Pilot. I've been disappointed a lot by Honda over the last 10 years. They use to be fun to drive and now they're turned into appliances just like Toyota. Hell, Toyota has had the flashier designs recently which is makes Honda even more depressing.

Used to be that Honda made the fun cars & Toyota was the appliances.
That's nearly reversed & Toyota has more fun cars than Honda.
GR86, GR Corolla, Supra, Even the TRD Camry to an extent.

Honda has the CTR, ITS & TLX-S

I've been very pleased with my three Honda CR-V's. 2006, 2014, 2020.

No wonky GPS screen, very good mileage and performance that suits me.

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:

quote:

Wasn’t it the 2.5 engine from around 2000?

I thought the metal shim gasket came within a year or two of the change to timing chain. It’s been a while since I did all that research though.

IIRC, the issue was the oil resting on the gasket, since the heads are horizontal, basically eating its way through.

'99 Outback, '03 Outback, and a '00 Forester. I fixed the '03, and got about 60k miles out of it before they failed again.

That sucks. It also isn't very relevant to this discussion. Those cars are over 2 decades old, this isn't an issue anymore, hasn't been for awhile. It would be enough for me personally to write off the brand though, that I understand.

IIRC that generation had the HG issues & haven't been a recurring problem for quite some time now.

Jhe, maybe give the Crosstrek (with the 2.5 engine) a look as well, if you don't need the size/space of the Outback.
Same engine, less weight/size, might offset the power/weight of the non-turbo Outback.

quote:

Same engine, less weight/size, might offset the power/weight of the non-turbo Outback

Smaller I think? Isn’t the Crosstrek 2.0i vs the 2.5i Outback?

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:

quote:

Same engine, less weight/size, might offset the power/weight of the non-turbo Outback

Smaller I think? Isn’t the Crosstrek 2.0i vs the 2.5i Outback?

The 2.5 is an option on the higher trims, I believe.
Base & Premium are the 2.0
Sport, Limited & Wilderness get the 2.5

Looks like the 6MT option is no longer offered. CVT only on all trims.

https://www.subaru.com/vehicle...trek/specs-trim.html

My VW diesel sat around the dealer's lot for 15 months or so a while back, and during that time the dealer lent me an Outback. Well, they lent me a Forester first. I had that for a day and asked to swap for an Outback I'd seen there. I really didn't like the Forester.

So they lent me an Outback. Well, three of them, actually. I'd keep one for a few months, they'd want it back and hand me a new one. Fun stories!

I'm a "wagon nerd" anyway, and have wanted a Subaru wagon since the old, boxy, (and crappy) late 80s models, so the chance to drive a new one around for a while (neither I nor the VW/Subaru dealer had any idea this lend would go on for so long!) was welcome. The first was a '21 Limited, with about 10K miles on if I remember right. I really liked it. Fuel mileage ran around 28 to the gallon, which was a plus for me, as I do a lot of driving. The seats were great. The extendable thigh bolster was a wonderful thing for me. I could sit down in that car and make a four- or five-hour drive without reservation. Heated seats, heated wheel... heck, even the back seats were heated. Plenty of room to haul the things I haul occasionally, and way more luxurious than my own 10- and 20-year old vehicles.

I never had the big-screen maladies I had read so much about, thankfully. There's a good bit of "nanny" in there, with the Eyesight system and all that it entails. Some of it you can turn off. I really didn't like that it watched my eyes and barked at me when I'd watch another car or a deer or whatever else not directly ahead of me for too long. I had to take a minute before running it through a car wash, and turn off some of the anti-collision goodies, too. Fun story: I parked next to another one just like it one day and noticed a full sheet of paper taped to the dashboard -- with instructions on what to do before going to the car wash.

After about six months with that one, the dealer wanted it back and handed me the keys to a '22 Limited. Second verse, same as the first. I really had it in my head that I wanted to buy an Infiniti Q50 Red Sport, and Explorer ST, or a 4Runner as my next vehicle. And these darned Outbacks kept trying to convince me to like them better. Try hard, they did. The more I drove them, the more I liked them.

I don't like the black plastic trim on the front of '23/'24 models -- especially on white ones. Makes the car look like a demented panda or something. If I were to buy one, I'd have to get a dark color to hide that ugliness.

That said, just before Christmas of 2022, I had to go swap with the dealer again. This time they handed me a brand-stinking-new '23 Limited XT. Six miles on it. Thankfully, it was painted in their "dark mahogany pearl." Black plastic aside, the darned thing was beautiful. I didn't realize it was an XT (meaning it got the turbo, among other things) until my 45-minute trip from the dealer back to work. I did notice on the drive that this one seemed more willing to get up to speed. When I got to work I did a walkaround and saw the XT badge. Now I was really considering buying an Outback instead of the others! That XT came with a fuel mileage penalty of about 4mpg, but if I were buying I'd certainly buy the XT. On my trips through Raleigh, Greensboro, and a few other dense-traffic areas, I really enjoyed the extra get-up-and-go that the XT brought.


Side notes:
- A white Subaru wagon is SUCH a sleeper in traffic. When the pack is hauling ass, the guy in the Subaru isn't the one who gets the attention from the ladies and gents with the flashy-blinkies.
- I don't like that you can't turn the daytime running lights all the way off. The only way to turn them off while the engine is on is to have the car in park. I received a lot of nasty looks and a few bad words driving through one of the drive-thru Christmas light shows. I hate DRLs to begin with, and these are stupid bright. Headlights off and park lights on? Sure! But the DRLs stay on. Grr.
- I've read that this year's Crosstrek gets some additions to the nanny-tech that will actually pull you off to the side of the road, unlock the doors, and turn on the four-ways if the system thinks you're drowsy. I'm not a fan of that. "Listen, car, I'm driving you! Not the other way around." I'm not sure if that mess will get programmed into the Outback, but I'm sure I don't like it. I'll look for a link to that article shortly.

"Too much electronic nanny" aside, I'll say I was disappointed when I had to give back that XT after only about three months. I put about 6000 miles on it, though, and enjoyed doing so.

Altogether, I put about 16k miles on three different Outbacks over a 15-month span. That was a heck of a long-term test drive!

Did I mention I really liked the seats?

Those seats are fantastic and yea, 260 hp in a wagon is surprisingly fun.

I love both of the Crosstrek I have owned but the Outback is very nice in a bigger, more powerful, and more refined way.

I think you can buy one with as much confidence as you can buy any new car.

(I have read about the Driver Focus stuff but I think you are incorrect about it pulling the car over and that other stuff, I will research)

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
I'll look for a link to that article shortly.

The article I was thinking of came from The Drive.


From the article:

quote:

For the first time on a Subaru, Emergency Stop Assist activates if the driver becomes unresponsive to warnings while using Advanced Adaptive Cruise Control. The new standard safety feature will stop the vehicle, activate the hazard lights, and unlock the doors. SUBARU STARLINK® Connected Services will then place a call to emergency services.

In my Ford, when using the ACC, if you ignore the 'keep hands on wheel' warnings, it starts braking. I haven't allowed to go fully through it to see what it does.

Not sure I like the part about the calling EMS when triggered.

Also curious how intrusive the alerts are. I know my Explorer mutes the stereo to make sure you're hearing the alert.

I can't find a single reference to that feature being installed on any current Subaru. Even looking forward to the 2025 Forester they don't reference that feature at all. This sounds to me like typical trade show stuff. What you might see in the future. Eyesight has zero capability to drive off the road and stop. It can "emergency" brake straight ahead. That is it. I have the lane assist stuff and it is not good, certainly not drive off a road and brake to a stop capable.

I wouldn't worry about this level of nanny until the car can actually drive down the center of a freeway without getting seasick. This is Tesla level stuff which Subaru is nowhere near.

I will keep looking for Subaru references to this "feature" though.

(In theory it could easily save your life, the key to me is how easily you can override it)

(Reading more what you are describing "might" be a system where you are using the full up adaptive cruise control and you ignore all the warnings it might stop straight ahead and activate the starlink stuff. I still have my doubts though because stopping straight ahead on an interstate seems just as dangerous and almost certainly going to get you rear ended. I would like to see more of this and how it is implemented/overrided before I make my verdict known) Hmm.

If I can find a suitable location, I may try to test the Ford system & see what it does once it starts braking. I only let it slow a couple mph before I overrode it.

In my case, all you have to do is give the wheel a nudge & it clears the alert. But I don't have any driver-facing monitoring, which I think the newer Subarus do. Just don't know what their effect is when sensing inattentive/drowsy driving.

Part of the Eyesight system in the Subaru I traded did have a sensor that monitored your eyes and give you a reminder in the dash if you break your gaze. However, it's just a warning and doesn't do anything to the car except maybe turning off adaptive cruze (never tested that last part).

You can turn it off in the setting menu of the giant screen as long as you're in Park.

2021 Onyx Outback turbo. Pretty nice but I hate the CVT programming. The default is, of course, to maxmize mileage so you get an immediate up shift to a higher gear as soon as possible. Given enough boot, the car will go like stink. And of course like every manufacturer these days, the auto star/stop engine system. You can turn it off, but have to turn it off every time you start the car.

The entertainment system is sometime flaky, but works well most of the time.

Ride is comfortable as are the seats.

The anti-collision braking system sometimes get fooled by a car turning off the road in front of you.

And yes, weak glass on the windshield. New one within the first year.

RMD

My dad has used their Outback to move his 12ft trailer when his Mule wasn't available.
Theirs has an aftermarket hitch on it.
Backing up the the trailer, the RAB [Reverse Automatic Braking] senses a collision & applies the brakes.
Took him a few times to figure out how to either back carefully enough to not trigger it, or just turn RAB off for hitching up.

I looked at Honda CRVs. Nice, but a total snooze.

RAV4s are similar, and a little plastic-ey.

The Mazda C5 and C50 are a cut above. I preferred the C5 as it seemed a little roomier, but Mazda hasn't updated it in quite a while.

The Outback is roomier than the Mazda.

I will keep my Mazda 6 for a while, but it has 200k on it, so you never know. Nothing is broken, but it feels it's age. It has been an excellent car.

CX-5 is being replaced by the CX-50, but they're still building both until stock level becomes acceptable. It's not going to get an update.