Anyone here play Pathfinder and/or D&D 5e? What do you think about the two systems? Pros/cons for each?

I used to be in a gaming group ~15 years ago, but life got in the way (finished college, started LE career, family/marriage/etc). I haven't played in over a decade.

Back when I played, I started with AD&D 2nd Edition, then transitioned to D&D 3rd Edition and various D20-system games. Towards the end of my time with that group, D&D 3.5 had just come out.

I have more free time now, and recently decided to get back into tabletop gaming. I found a couple groups in my area that I'm meeting over the next few weeks. One plays Pathfinder, the other D&D 5th Edition. A big factor will be the people in the groups, but I'm also curious about which system would be a better fit for me.

I've read over the open-source content for both games. Both seem equally viable, and both were pretty familiar overall.

Pathfinder definitely seems like the "deeper" system, partly because it's more complex, and partly because it's been around for a lot longer so there's a lot more published content for it. It appears that it's basically D&D 3.75, so while I'm pretty rusty, many of the concepts were familiar to me.

D&D 5e is a slightly bigger departure from what I played before (although still similar), with it being an altered/revamped take on the D&D system. However, it appears to be noticeably simplified over earlier editions, and it seems like it may be easier to get up to speed on it. But simpler isn't always better...

Thoughts?

I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder system, their ability score system is whack.

5e is much better than 3, 3.5 or 4. It goes back to the basics, while cleaning up the clutter.

quote:

Originally posted by IndyRob:
I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder system, their ability score system is whack.

Could you elaborate?

In my brief overview, the ability score system doesn't seem to be any different than D&D 3.X's on the surface, and barely different than D&D 5's...

I’ll go the other way

I love pathfinder

I’ve been in the same pathfinder group for 12 years. We meet once a week. I am currently the GM...we are halfway through book 2 of the Giantslayer AP

I’m going to insult the 5e fans among us, and I apologize in advance for doing it. I don’t see anyway to sugar coat what I’m about to say

5e is D&D/pathfinder for the ADHD/instant gratification/video game generation. I’ve played both and in my experience the people that prefer 5e are younger. I’m in my mid 40s and played basic edition D&D for the first time in the late 70s with one of my best friends older brothers (sit there, shut up, when I tell you roll that die and tell me what it says...we thought we had made the big time...really the older kids just wanted a couple more players).

5e is not nearly as rules intensive as pathfinder is. That can be an advantage to newer gamers. And don’t get me wrong, pathfinder lends itself to munchkins and rules lawyers. But the more in depth rules allow for a much more in depth story, and way more options for experienced players

The great thing is both have a lot of followers and a lot of support. Figure out which is best for you and game away!


Edit: and I’m not sure what he is talking about with the ability score system,...it is in essence the same system that AD&D started....(scores 3-18 to start, abilities are the same, there is no 18/xx strength, but that went out with the end of 2nd edition)

I haven’t played since college when 2nd edition was out. They were getting overly complicated at the time and I lost interest. 4th edition was a trainwreck and 5th fixed lots of problems. I’d say the people will be more important than the system.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
I haven’t played since college when 2nd edition was out. They were getting overly complicated at the time

That was my take as well. I started with 2nd Edition in the late 90s, and enjoyed it, but was happy when 3rd Edition came out with its streamlined system.

Now it appears that Wizards did another simplification with 5th Edition.

I don't think 3.X was overly complicated, and what I've seen of Pathfinder's system doesn't seem to have made it noticeably more complex either. (I'm talking about the complexity of the underlying system, not Pathfinder's added complexity of the sheer volume of race/class/spell/feat/etc. options due to the amount of printed material available out there.)

quote:

4th edition was a trainwreck

I never played 4th Edition, since that was during my hiatus, but everything I've read/heard was negative. But that was apparently good for Pathfinder, because it was able to cement its place as the better option during that time period.

quote:

I’d say the people will be more important than the system.

Agreed. But the system is a factor, especially if one is significantly flawed in some way that I haven't recognized in my brief perusals.

Nerd that I was, my friends and I made our own game in the 80's. It was a lot of work, but it was great when it was done. There were no classes, just skills. No reason anyone cant pick up a sword or pike, you just will suck ass with it unless you get better in that skill.

The magic system was dangerous to all, if you didn't know what you were doing and attempting spells you could kill yourself easily. Magic was a specialized skill only a few could master.

I play Pathfinder w/ a couple old friends. We enjoy it but keep our eyes open for other things too. Recently we played Starfinder (Pathfinder in space) but gave up on it and are continuing are way through Rise of the Rune Lords.

Why Pathfinder? None of has our D&D 1 or 2 from our teen/college yrs but one of us had some 3.0 and 3.5 D&D and were not thrilled about yet another jump to 4.0 which got horrible reviews.
I picked up the Pathfinder Basic Box and while the intro adventure was so-so theme wise, I can recommend the Basic Box for components and cost.
I use it quite a bit for our regular sessions.

One thing you will find is Pathfinder character building can be a little complex. I ended up purchasing Hero Lab to streamline this and do the number crunching for us.

I don't have anything against D&D 5.0 as I don't know much about it. My nephew really wanted it for Christmas so I picked up the DM's Guide and Player Handbook for him, that's the closest I got. I did check out a couple of their adventure modules that were hard cover and those looked pretty nice.

And while I would like to complain about how fast Wizards of the Coast jumps from one version to the next, I'm forced to mention Pathfinder is play testing 2.0 in August.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest

We really like Pathfinder. There's a ton of content out the there for it.

quote:

I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder system, their ability score system is whack.

I've not played higher levels but some have complained it doesn't scale well.
I imagine Pathfinder 2 will tweak this.

quote:

and were not thrilled about yet another jump to 4.0 which got horrible reviews.

4.0 is bad, you heard correctly. I haven't played Pathfinder but I do enjoy D&D 5.0

I haven't played in 25 years.

My nephews, all 3 in their early to mid 20's keep trying to get me involved. They say its much more fun now due to all the digital tools. A lot of the hours spent looking things up and fighting over rules is minimized between the increase speed and the simplified system.

They say its more fun and games then excel and supervisors. I guess they thought it was hard work before.

They said you could get a lot done in a 3 or 4 hour session. I remember wasting 12 hours in the library and walking away with nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by IndyRob:
I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder system, their ability score system is whack.

Could you elaborate?

In my brief overview, the ability score system doesn't seem to be any different than D&D 3.X's on the surface, and barely different than D&D 5's...

Too many modifiers, and the range of scores is way too big. 5e uses the 4d6 with a max of 18 plus a few simple modifiers.

Pathfinder scores go up to 45, with modifiers going from -5 to +5. They also have base scores
using a point system ranging from 10 up to 25 depending on the campaign type.

Here's a link that you should find useful. http://www.d20pfsrd.com

quote:

Originally posted by IndyRob:
Here's a link that you should find useful. http://www.d20pfsrd.com

Yeah, both PF and 5E have open-source SRDs available online for free.

I like that, because it lets players and DMs with limited budgets still participate, and allows guys like me to read up on a new system without having to invest money in any books.

WotC definitely set a nice precedent when they introduced that concept with 3E/d20.

I guess I don’t get what is complicated about that

Player characters rarely get scores higher than the low 20s, and that is with the aid of magic and lots of leveling

The only thing you’re going to find with a strength of 45 is something like a titan or an ancient dragon....and shouldn’t they be several magnitudes stronger than your average human?

As far as choosing ability scores, pathfinder gives the 4d6 option just like 5e...the points buy systems are all optional to what your DM wants to run....lots of options. I actually use a session 0 for my players to create their characters and let them choose their method of creation...with a point buy as a fall back...I basically reward them for using the old school method...I have s player currently who used the original D&D 3d6 and you have to take the results in order (you can’t choose which number goes where). He has the lowest ability scores in the party, but more feats than anyone.

Again, to each his own. Having played both, you could play pathfinder just like 5e if you wanted. I just like there are a ton more options in pathfinder. The game in 5e is definitely more streamlined. And I see the appeal there. As someone who crunched through all the editions I find pathfinder to have the best balance of rules and story focus. (Yes I even played 4e...God was that terrible)


What I really need is a good group of shadow runners.

(Still my favorite RPG)

quote:

Originally posted by IndyRob:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by IndyRob:
I'm not a fan of the Pathfinder system, their ability score system is whack.

Could you elaborate?

In my brief overview, the ability score system doesn't seem to be any different than D&D 3.X's on the surface, and barely different than D&D 5's...

Too many modifiers, and the range of scores is way too big. 5e uses the 4d6 with a max of 18 plus a few simple modifiers.

Pathfinder scores go up to 45, with modifiers going from -5 to +5. They also have base scores
using a point system ranging from 10 up to 25 depending on the campaign type.

Here's a link that you should find useful. http://www.d20pfsrd.com

Well, I will be 'that guy'... have you tried the Melee system by Steve Jackson Games and the Universal Role Playing System? The advantage, as I remember from 25 years ago, is that you did not have to search through multiple books for the hit tables and such. Not knocking D&D but the Melee system was less complex.

FWIW, please allow me to interject a reference to Avalon Hill's Magic Realm... Tremendous Complexity!

I have been playing D&D since the late 70s.

I have no experience with Pathfinder but hear good things.

Currently I am in a 5e campaign. 5e is a stripped down version of D&D. A lot less rules and a lot more freewheeling. It is a fine system if you like D20 games.

In all honesty most of the fun depends on the gamemaster and the group. Any system can be fun with a good group and a good story.

I go to Renaissance festivals. They often have a vendor with dice, books, etc. Also have some friends at work that do D&D but I have never taken the plunge.

had fond memories of playing with friends. Miss those days. we started with D&D and moved on to this system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_System

quote:

Well, I will be 'that guy'... have you tried the Melee system

This was the game that I played in the late 70s, still have In the Labyrinth etc... taught my wife to play; its been a while though.

Both of us played Basic D&D and then D&D 3.0 & 3.5 for a while (never AD&D though), then we started playing the Mongoose Conan RPG (modified 3.5 rules etc...) I am a big REH fan...

Now if we do play, its Barbarians of Lemuria- a light rules, easy and fun game that we enjoy. Use it to run a Hyborian Age campaign.

Have a couple of friends that we used to game with from time to time, but not recently.

I have the Pathfinder rule book, but I have not played it and probably won't - planning on giving the book to my nephews when they visit this summer; they are starting to play D&D.