I was a CART fan, and when they had the big hiccup with IRL and IRL won, then, to me, it went down hill,

at that same time, I was watching F1 and Trans Am,

Trans Am was freaking awesome then, lots of good drivers, lots of factory support,


the,

CART split , IRL took over and that series went to pot,
did go see a few races here in
RVA, but I like road races, not circles,


Trans Am lost a lot of factory support, the drivers moved on, or retired or ??


F1 became the Michael Shumacher show, and after Senna passed, the changes made a boring race,


FWIW, I was an Al Unser JR fan in CART
pulled for Mansell in F1 and CART
liked Said and Kendall in T\A,

then with those changes, TV coverage got odd, and the races harder to follow (did not have the net at that time,

seems for whatever reasons, a lot of good racing was lost all at the same time

And I remember when CART decided to race at TMS and a lot of the CART guys complained of "dizziness".

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93412&page=1

https://www.chron.com/news/art...r-safety-2053083.php

They should have never split and just did the whole shebang. Ovals and road courses.
That split doomed both sides, and they haven't recovered to their former glory.

Unser jr, was my man too. IRL De Farran and Greg Ray I followed. Until Helio came along.

^^^You can thank Tony George for the split. What a mess he created. And NASCAR laughed all the way to the bank.

Lots of things have changed in Indycar since the late 90’s.
Tony George is long gone. Roger Penske now owns the series and the (Indy) speedway and they mostly run on road courses again.
You may want to take another look if that’s your point of reference.

I agree that Indy is WAY more fun than F1 these days.

I can't stand all the hoity toity euro shit, glitz and woke bull-shitz.

Those pit stops are fast tho. Probably the most interesting thing to watch in any contemporary F1 race.

If they don’t want to bring back refueling, slashing the number of pit crews in half will make pit stop longer and more important to get right.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
If they don’t want to bring back refueling, slashing the number of pit crews in half will make pit stop longer and more important to get right.

Ferrari did a fine job of that at Zandvoort. Just missing the Benny Hill theme to go along with it.

I'll watch Indy and Nascar on road courses but no ovals. Been an F1 fan as long as I can remember. The midfield has better racing this year.

quote:

Originally posted by valkyrie1:
I'll watch Indy and Nascar on road courses but no ovals. Been an F1 fan as long as I can remember. The midfield has better racing this year.

With IndyCar now favoring road courses, the few ovals they've run have been mostly excellent (ovals were USAC and CART staples back in the day). As such, they're the exception rather than the rule and a lot more interesting as a result.

IndyCar rookie David Malukas gained his first podium at Gateway with his second place finish in a fantastic race. Edge of the seat stuff. Maybe the best race of the year.

Malukas is a great story and the kind of guy that makes IndyCar so much fun. His Lithuanian family managed to flee the Iron Curtain and have thrived here.
DM is one of four hot shot rookies and lets me make my point again. Get to know the drivers and it all becomes so much more appealing.

I liked both F1 and CART back when CART ruled the sport here in the U.S. The George power play with the IRL left a foul taste and over time the ineptness of USAC guidance of IRL and the ragtag lost focus nature of what remnants bits were left of CART (especially after Penske left for the other side) I lost almost complete interest in both. By the time the two leagues reunified it was to me a mere shadow of what CART once was. When IndyCar brought in someone from NASCAR to run the show (presumably in the manner that NASCAR does things) that made it even more unpalatable. Then there was that horrific Las Vegas race and the death of Dan Wheldon. Three abreast racing in open wheel...yeah that was a smart thing hiring a NASCAR-learned guy with zero knowledge of open wheel cars. At least he admitted it, albeit with blood on his hands.

As for F1: I still maintain some interest in the sport, with no illusions that the racing is just as likely to be boring as it occasionally is exciting. That's the reality of a sport that isn't a spec-racing league. I like that it's up to the teams to dream up and build their cars. It's about creativity, engineering, design, ideas and build quality as much as it is about driver talent, something that IndyCar is in short supply of given its spec-series nature. Very much like NASCAR is these days, where aside from the paint schemes and who makes the engine they're all more or less the same damn thing.

NASCAR was more fun when it was stock cars. Indy car racing was more fun when teams built their own machines. That's the only reason why I still sometimes follow F1, just to see if some other group of guys have figured out how to reign in the front runner. Unfortunately 2022 has shown so far that everyone else still hasn't figured out Red Bull and Mad Max.

BTW, the Porsche/Red Bull deal mentioned earlier is dead in case you haven't heard already. Porsche wanted control and RB wasn't willing to give it up, especially now that they're on a roll. So with negotiations a stalemate Porsche pulled out of the talks and RB will continue with their plans of building their own engine. It'll be interesting to see how well RB does once Honda is completely out of the picture and they're running their own powerplant under the new spec. Hopefully for them Red Bull will sell enough energy drinks to AFFORD the costs of the tooling and machining they'll be needing...

quote:

Originally posted by rainman64:
And I remember when CART decided to race at TMS and a lot of the CART guys complained of "dizziness".

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93412&page=1

https://www.chron.com/news/art...r-safety-2053083.php

They should have never split and just did the whole shebang. Ovals and road courses.
That split doomed both sides, and they haven't recovered to their former glory.

Unser jr, was my man too. IRL De Farran and Greg Ray I followed. Until Helio came along.

helio was good

so was the italian guy (franchitti??) even after his accident

Dario Franchitti is Scottish.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Dario Franchitti is Scottish.

And had to retire from racing after Sato crashed him out....along with many others he has caused crashes with..just saying.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Dario Franchitti is Scottish.

well that just shows how long I have been out of it,

google says the guy I am thinking of is Alex Zanardi,

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Dario Franchitti is Scottish.

well that just shows how long I have been out of it,

google says the guy I am thinking of is Alex Zanardi,

Zanardi was kind of, I don't know if arrogant is the right word, but he new how to win. He would be black flagged and come from last to win. He was very good. But hard to like as a driver if that makes sense. After he lost his legs, he didn't give up, he powered on and got back into racing. He has my respect and admiration for never giving up. He wrote a book "my sweetest victory" which is worth reading.

quote:

Originally posted by urbanwarrior238:

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Dario Franchitti is Scottish.

And had to retire from racing after Sato crashed him out....along with many others he has caused crashes with..just saying.

If it wasn’t Sato it would be from someone else. Dario retired due to repeated head trauma. If it wasn’t that crash, it would have been another.

I’ve also got to congratulate Will Power for winning his 2nd IndyCar Championship on the same weekend he broke Mario Andretti’s Pole Record at 68 and counting. I’ve also got to hand it to his teammate Josef Newgarden for finishing 2nd at Laguna Seca after qualifying 25th. It’s going to be interesting next year when Laguna get a full track repaving as some drivers were driving off line because there was more grip than the worn out apex.

quote:

Zanardi was kind of, I don't know if arrogant is the right word, but he new how to win. He would be black flagged and come from last to win. He was very good. But hard to like as a driver if that makes sense.

He wasn’t unlikeable like Senna or Schumacher. Zanardi was just hell on wheels and if he wrecked someone, it wasn’t intentional. He’d much rather do it on track.

^^ It's not just the asphalt, there's a lot of sand blowing around there too and everytime someone drops a wheel or gets near the apex, the air around the car pulls up up onto the track. You could see it in many shots.
The new asphalt will make the abrasion less on the tires but the sand effect may be even worse.

As to Alex Zanardi, he always seemed to be a likeable guy and showed a lot of personality. He never got a really good chance in F1 but was a dominant driver during many of his CART years. After his accident, he competed in and won the Paralympics.
Unfortunately a couple of years ago he was struck by a car during a wheelchair race and seriously injured again.
Here is an interview and story in between those times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-kX925V8R4

An update from last December.
https://racingnews365.com/zana...-condition-is-issued

I enjoy the technology of F1, but decry the team boss telling the driver what to do each lap. Or so it seems. I also can’t stomach the very controlling FIA, the closed community of only ten teams and two drivers per team. And, the obvious connections between teams, such as Ferrari and Haas.

I just saw the ESPN morning interview with the new Indy champion, and he mentioned that the parity was amazing. All cars within 0.7 seconds lap time on qualifying, I think he said. That is unheard of in F1. So, point to Indycar. I also like oval, road, and city courses. Point to Indycar.

I wish there were still freedoms to innovate. Andy Granatelli and the turbine car vs. the Offy? What a show. Nowadays there are so many restrictions that both increase parity and lessen innovation. I don’t want cheating, but I do want novel and innovative designs. So, spec chassis, spec engines, etc. are a problem for me.

I think I’ll watch Indy next year.

Earlier in the current Dallara life cycle, they had manufacturer aero kits to help innovation and keep costs from spiraling out of control, but what ended up happening is both vendors (Pratt & Whitney for Chevy and Wirith Research for Honda) putting out almost the identical aero kit. The other issue was the aero kits made the cars easier to drive. When the series went back to a standard aero kit that put more downforce from the undertray, it made the cars harder to control and more of a handful.

The other bummer was back when they made a change to the current car, the only manufacturer that was willing to open a shop in Indianapolis or even compete against another chassis manufacturer was Dallara. It’s going to take a few more years of growth before we’re back to multiple chassis and such.

I ran across an article (no link) about how well Roger Penske is doing, he's worth north of a billion. That seemed to make no sense. Penske bought the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Indy Car racing series just before the covid hit. Spectator sport among the hardest hit. How would Rog weather that?

Turns out with strong tv and series sponsorship deals, IndyCar is thriving. Despite the near suicidal split of CART/IRL in the 90's, the product is good and there are plenty of fans eager for racing. So yeah, know that IndyCar may not be the absolute pinnacle of motor sports, it's close and the show is great. It's future looks good and the big surprise, Roger Penske does the right thing again.

This was a great year with the points leader changing almost race to race. A wonderful finale, congrats to the reimagined Will Power, can't wait for next year.