Very cool video. Whenever anyone talks about racing more analog cars with three pedals, a shift lever, no electronic assists, etc, they inevitably say something like "this is back when you really had to drive a car" or "it took a real man to race in those days".

We admire these men and these cars, yet modern F1, and other motorsports, are dominated by sophisticated technology. Obviously there is still plenty of racing done in the "old school" manner (this video is from 2024), but the stuff with maximum exposure is what many purists and enthusiasts decry.

The modern tech enables extreme speeds. Ultimately racing has always been about going faster, so it's logical that it's progressed the way it has.

The rawer experience has a lot of appeal, in my opinion. The element of danger is increased too, in many cases, despite the slower speeds.

I saw a pretentious comment in a comment section on automotive auction site BaT last year: Something to the effect of "well, do you race for fun or do you race to win?". Hasn't it always been for fun?

Friendly competition initially pursued to get the adrenaline pumping inevitably leads to more formal competition (especially when sponsors become involved). Sponsors inject money into engineering and tech to get an edge on the competition, and emerging technology often prompts changes in the rules. Next thing you know, the driver interacts with the car in a different way. No less impressive, in most cases, but a divergence in taste materializes.

I, for one, think it's neat for the driver to manipulate more things with his feet. I think it's exciting that he needs to remove a hand from the wheel, to enable a gear change.

I know there are more passionate and knowledgeable "race fans" here on SigForum. I'd be curious to hear their opinions.

In the case of this specific video: are the 80s fondly remembered, in the F1 fan base? If so why are we content to merely daydream about the "golden age" of something? If fans think the sport was at its best forty years ago, why don't the race teams, sponsors, engineers, and the F1 organization do more to showcase this particular "class"? Or do they?

I hear it often said that older generations lacked finesse, but that is never true when I watch vintage footage. They had car control skills every bit as honed as contemporary champions. Manual shift F1 cars are very fun to watch IMO as well.

I am actually much less enthusiastic about F1 these days because the physical demands and precision are there, but as you said, the cars have been sterilized a bit with the technology and the margin for error is wider. Also, they should have stuck with gas engines. The hybrids sound like dog shit, and there was no reason other than woke politics to cease advances on ICE technology in favor of electric (Sorry Elon). After all, this is supposed to be fun.

I'm not going to comment about the BaT person saying "race to win vs race for fun" besides the fact that I see insanely stupid comments like that all the time and they should be ignored. This is much like saying "the .45 ACP will blow a man's head clean off, and 9mm bounces off of tire sidewalls..."

Love Spa
Have seen the Ford DF_ V8 vintage cars at COTA twice.

Senna muscling the stick shift McLaren around Monaco, and the absolute exhaustion after his Brazil win. Really shows the level of skill back then.
I don't know if they had power steering then, like they do now, bit they're so much more cocooned into the cockpit & I'm sure it's less mentally taxing to work the paddle shift to the stick.

The ones I wish I'd been able to see in person were the early 00s V10s. Got to see the V10 2 seaters at COTA, but seeing 22 of them would've been amazing.

I would say they are generally the best of their era (at least the front guys) but so many differences in the cars, tracks and sport it's not fair to say who's the best of all time.

I have to say that from a fans visual standpoint, it's hard to beat the Spa 2009 era experience.

Put this on full screen and turn up the sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpvuu5MfaSk

I could watch those videos all day. I think the best years were late 60's through
the 80's. Slide thru corners! As DocSolo said, they sound like crap. Bring back the superchargers.
Rally drivers are insane, I think some of the best.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I would say they are generally the best of their era (at least the front guys) but so many differences in the cars, tracks and sport it's not fair to say who's the best of all time.

I have to say that from a fans visual standpoint, it's hard to beat the Spa 2009 era experience.

Put this on full screen and turn up the sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpvuu5MfaSk

Gimme an 18k rpm V10 over any of them
Saw a video recently that explained why V10s have the best aural sound, can't recall the reasoning but had to do with harmonics I think. It went from 1 cyl to V12 & explained the acoustics of it.

This is one of the best
I've been working through the F1 archives & am midway through 2004 right now.



Video on different configurations

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P250UA5,

quote:

Rally drivers are insane, I think some of the best.

I also love the rally discipline. However, I think they get a little more credit than they deserve. They don't have to think about the tactics of door-to-door racing, and they don't need to react to opponents' moves. It's a more controlled environment. I have recently been entertained by the hillclimb discipline too; very similar to rally.

The Isle of Man TT is often touted as the gnarliest motorcycle race. But, much like rally, it's not door-to-door. All these drivers (and riders) are talented and brave. It's easier to espouse the total psycho balls-of-steel approach when it's only you and your machine against the clock on a (mostly) closed course.

The rally discipline has a bit of an extra extremity to it due to a less-than-intimate knowledge of the course. The Isle of Man guys know that course. The rally guys get a couple runs to assess conditions and make their notes, and then it's balls-out.

Back to the OP topic, but in the rally sphere: It used to be commonplace for proper manual transmissions and RWD to be in top contention at rally events. Now you're not going to be competitive without AWD and paddle sequential.

It's like shooting with iron sights, in a way. There's always going to be that guy with the basic pistol or rifle who outperforms everyone else at the range. That's the guy and the gun(s) that make an impression on people. The man commanding the machine on the ragged edge of performance.

Addition: My statements concerning the drivers' knowledge of the courses in various racing disciplines are based on my admittedly limited knowledge based on casual impressions; not strict research.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,