So I have always liked Star Trek, but have been more of a Star Wars guy. My son is dragging me more into the Trek world.

Anyway, I have watched DS9 and enjoyed it, but was watching some TNG, and the 2 part episode, chain of command, the famous 4 lights story.

But why is everyone against Capt Jellicho? The whole crew acted like a bunch of whiny babies, he was pushing them to be ready for full scale war, not another diplomatic or exploration mission. He was no nonsense. But they all behaved like jackasses and he should have relieved them all of command. And the end? Rikers behavior was total douchebaggery.

Is it just me or why all the hate for this guy? So he was abrupt, but he wasn't incompetent or an idiot. He just felt everything would fail, war was inevitable, and they would be alone and surrounded by Cardassians trying to kill them the whole way back to safety. He wanted them at full ready war footing

To me the crew of the Enterprise did not come off as the best in the fleet in this story but a bunch of spoiled babies.

The Enterprise is not a warship. In fact, it is a ship of exploration. Though Starfleet teaches combat tactics, the crew is focused on research, exploration, and diplomacy.

Jellicho is a holdover from what people in Starfleet consider to be a bygone era.

The funny thing is the Enterprise crew were holdovers of a different time during DS9 when the Dominion War broke out.

No they weren't. The Dominion made it necessary for the Fleet to shift to a war-fighting doctrine; however, they kept using ships that weren't designed for war in their fleets. The first true warship designed by Starfleet in decades was the Defiant, which was only a prototype designed to meet the threat of Dominion aggression when Sisko took command. During the war, more ship classes came online which were dedicated warships.

This doesn't mean that the Federation threw away its ideals for peace and exploration.

Doesn't that make Jellicho even more correct? He had days to take this ship of exploration to the front line battleship of the fleet. He was sure war was going to break out, and Starfleet command seemed to agree things were on a razor edge.

So he had no choice but to be hard and drive this crew to be ready for war.

Get that fish out of my ready room.

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
<SNIP> Jellicho is a holdover from what people in Starfleet consider to be a bygone era.

Jellicho was the Richard Marcinko or Gunny Highway (Heartbreak Ridge) of StarFleet.

Ronny Cox will always be Lt. Bogomil to me. But I loved this episode and his performance. Jellico just had a different style of command that this crew wasn’t used to. Yes they got whiny. I mean the Captain’s first order was to go from three to four shifts and Riker disobeyed.

Starfleet designed and fielded some pretty powerful “science” ships, especially their flagship classes.

Both the Akira and Steamrunner classes were warships in all but name. The Akira class was built in large numbers prior to the war. While not mentioned on screen the Akira had been designed prior to the Borg (don’t remember the source material for that). The Steamrunner was developed concurrently with the Defiant. The Steamrunner entered service as a class while the Defiant was still a single prototype, but the Defiant launched first, thus becoming the “first” warship fielded by Starfleet in who knows how long.

For a “peaceful” Federation they sure seemed to fight a lot of wars. Many of the Enterprise crew had seen combat in any number of wars (O’Brien when he served on the Rutledge for example)

I agree with the OP; the Enterprise crew acted like a bunch of bitches, especially Riker. But I never liked Riker much anyways. I always though he was a giant, whiney, petulant pussy who should have been First Officer of a fleet tug, cargo ship, or garbage scowl.

I agree... Jellicho actually was more of a ships captain... who keeps himself separate from the crew. Of course it is just TV but a captain must remain above even his executive officer... and I could not get Rikers attitude...

Is he the one who made Troi take off the bunny suit and put a uniform on?

This all reminds me of Justin Long and his friends in the movie Galaxy Quest

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:
This all reminds me of Justin Long and his friends in the movie Galaxy Quest

I was just yesterday telling my girlfriend sometimes I am ashamed of myself that I can confidently recite more Star Trek and Star Wars history then I can my own country.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Is he the one who made Troi take off the bunny suit and put a uniform on?

Yes, and she got way better as a character after that. Looking the part of a bridge officer, and not an 80's craft store hooker, helped move her along, and become useful.

Part of being a good leader is not just telling people what to do, but doing it in the way best suited for them to receive those instructions. If you can't be flexible as a leader and change your approach based on your audience, you're not a good leader. You're just an operationally-strong asshole.

quote:

Troi take off the bunny suit

Picard was a diplomat and explorer. He would have been at his best planning and organizing large fleet engagements. Picard liked establishing a good team to go through all options before making a decision. He also liked setting up situations where they didn't have to fight. I give you an example of this:


Jellicho was a combat leader trying to get everyone on combat mode. Jellicho understood the old Patton quote about being a combat commander: "command is an orphan's journey" as it is the commander and commander alone who makes life and death decisions for their troops.


Sisko started out like a Picard but ended up more in the Jellicho style:


Data actually combines both styles:


Data educating Worf on duties for Executive Officer:


Never understood in TNG the HR Department Head had a seat on the bridge. In fact none of the other Star Fleet Vessels (or is it Wessels?) had an HR person on the bridge or even part of the command team.

quote:

Originally posted by jsbcody:

Data educating Worf on duties for Executive Officer:

Wow, I’ve never seen this! Who knew Data could be such a BAMF and with a Klingon warrior to boot.

In the military I always respected those leaders who took you aside to tell you that you were fucking up instead of belittling you in front of everyone.

I love that little Picard-esq tug on his tunic at the very end

Brent Spinner is/was a really good actor.

I don’t get some of the Riker hate. Unquestionably he had a different style, but he was a very effective leader, both as an explorer and as a warship captain. He did extremely well commanding the Hathaway in the 2nd season episode “Peak Performance” in a pure battle situation. Let’s also not forget that there would not be a Federation, if not for Riker’s excellent leadership as a warship commander in defeating the Borg in “The Best of Both Worlds.” I was no fan of Jellico, but I admit he had his place. In the same fashion I don’t think it appropriate to minimize Riker’s accomplishments.

As an aside, it always pissed me off that Riker didn’t maintain the rank of Captain (O-6) after he rescued Picard. Even if they wanted to keep Picard as captain of the Enterprise (and surely as an entertainment franchise Picard should have remained in command) they could have kept Riker with the rank of Captain. This is not without precedent in the Trek Universe as both Spock and Kirk maintained the rank of Captain (O-6) in the letter Trek movies even though Kirk was in command of the ship. Similarly even in the modern US Navy, at least half of the current Executive Officers of aircraft carriers hold the rank of O-6. Riker absolutely earned the rank of Captain, and it always peeved me a bit that they didn’t keep him at that rank. And yes, I know that in reality after the rebuilding of the fleet after the battle with the Borg, Riker would not have had the choice not to command a starship - he would have either kept the Enterprise (because there’s also no way that Picard would have been allowed to remain in command of a starship and likely would have been promoted to Admiral) or been assigned another ship or had to resign. But again we are also talking about and entertainment franchise and not a real military. Nonetheless I still think they should have kept Riker as an O-6 XO.