I know there are all sorts of options available to stream. If you stream and it works for you, that's fantastic. I would like to own my music rather than rent it. I grew up in a time where cover art was almost as important as the music itself. I repurchased many albums with the transition from cassette to CD. I get it things change. What hasn't changed is my desire to purchase and own.

My questions might seem silly, but I will ask them any way. I understand converting a CD I own to mp3 is legal as long as I continue to keep the CD. One question I have is, how does anyone know what CDs might be in anyone's possession at any given time? If a MP3 is purchased from Amazon or elsewhere, what is the "proof of purchase?" How long does that have to be kept? Can I sell a MP3 I bought like I could sell a CD I bought?

Why is the new norm to stream rather than to own? Does streaming allow one to listen over and over for as long as desired?

I am sure I am overthinking things, but I am curious.

Never seen someone sell a used MP3.

I still buy CDs and rip to MP3 for the car.

But I'm also using my exwife's spotify family plan and it lets me stream the same song over and over.

I purchase CDs and rip them for my car also, but at home I mostly stream music. The advantage is that if I want to pick whatever I want to play I can, or if I want it to just shuffle stuff I maybe haven't heard before I can do that too. There's no messing with physical media, I just choose what I want on my phone.

No one will randomly go through your phone to verify the legality of your mp3 files.

The burden to prove "ownership" is in downloading the .mp3 file if needed. You can "legally" download the .mp3 file off a torrent site if needed due to a scratched cd, and if questioned you can offer the damaged cd as proof that you've paid the royality for the song.

This came about as people were being busted using Napster to download music. Those that owned a physical copy of the music were not convicted of copyright violations.

When you stream music, the service you use pays the copyright fees, giving you legal use of the music.

I still burn .mp3 files of my cds, as I often work in areas without cell reception, and while many streaming services offer an "offline" option, I like to just use my files for that.

quote:

I understand converting a CD I own to mp3 is legal as long as I continue to keep the CD. One question I have is, how does anyone know what CDs might be in anyone's possession at any given time?

Where are you getting this legal advice?
You might want to change lawyers.
Not recommended to blatantly go steal music but it seems the fears and requirements are over-hyped here.
I will leave it at that.

Ripping a CD is not hard and can make the music very versatile.
I rip to FLAC rather than MP3 but I will let you research the reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by ffips:
I understand converting a CD I own to mp3 is legal as long as I continue to keep the CD. One question I have is, how does anyone know what CDs might be in anyone's possession at any given time? If a MP3 is purchased from Amazon or elsewhere, what is the "proof of purchase?" How long does that have to be kept?

IMO, you're overthinking this. A lot. Online music and movies are so pervasive in our society, streaming and downloads, no one is really worried about the legalities of music files. Like Gibb posted, back in the Napster days, the CD music industry was threatened, but now the industry has changed, and those days are long gone.

Like you, I don't really listen to streaming music, just the stuff I own. I still buy CDs from Amazon, play them on my CD player, but I also rip them into my computers as AACs for car use, and FLAC files for archival. There are some CDs that have disappeared or I've given away, but I still have the files.

I gave up on MP3, M4A, WMA, FLAC and whatever else I tried in between when I switched to streaming. While streaming isn't perfect (mostly due to the streaming apps themselves and the quality or lack thereof of the user interface), I don't regret the changeover. Much easier to live with, far less hassle and digital clutter on my hard drives and cloud storage. Data file management was never a strong suit (suite?) for me anyway.

Besides, I'm so over CDs. Artwork and liner notes were never the same once vinyl all but disappeared. They also never really offered the warm, satisfying sound that a well recorded and mastered LP with a sublime stylus cartridge on a smooth table provided in spades, even with the requisite pops and clicks. Later SACDs were better, but damned expensive and frustratingly limited since not all music was transferred to the format. Even so, their album art and teeny liner notes and lyrics still sucked as much as their CD predecessors.

Although newly produced LPs have made a bit of a comeback in recent years, part and parcel with the whole "mid century modern" bullshit movement, I'm not paying $25 to $30 a pop for ANY single newly minted title. Even with rare vintage vinyl I may have been searching for I'm loathed to fork over much. Those kinds of LP prices are certainly not anywhere close to what it was during the actual period of 'mid century' or in the years immediately following. And it would pay for three months of streamed music of near unlimited quantity and variety.

That's the REAL cool thing about streaming: the ability to access all sorts of music that I otherwise would have little to no access or even exposure to. For example, I never thought being a moss-covered PacNW guy I'd ever get into Cajun music, yet it's so damn easy be curious and click on a suggested link (thanks to me previously sampling a Buckwheat Zydeco album), then get hooked and easily find the stuff to satisfy the craving. Try doing that down at the CD store (wait, do those still exist anymore?)...

Then there's the 3500+ CDs that I've collected over the years, all gathering dust these days...and taking up a lot of room. If only 20/20 foresight had been possible. There's plenty of missed guns and ammo represented in those discs...

-MG

I don't care for the streaming model, and instead curate and manage my own collection.

Buy used CDs for cheap, rip lossless copies of them, and move on.

The cloud sucks, Spotify sucks, Pandora sucks, all trash quality.

I have phones with SD Cards, and never need bandwidth for music.

Also, Spotify is terrible for the Artists and needs to die a painful death for that reason alone.

I appreciate the responses. There's a good chance I am over thinking things. Trying to color within the lines...

smschultz, I am not sure I understand your reply. If you care ti elaborate fine. If you don't that's fine too. I am not asking how to steal (blatantly or otherwise). If anything, I am trying to prevent any accusations of such.

Just rip whatever CDs you want. Loaners, yours, used, new, whatever...

Let your conscience guide you, because no one else can tell or will ever know. Ease your mind.

I rip CDs to FLAC, myself, and have been doing so for many years now.

I use JRiver Media Center as my playback/server software and love it to death. It's like iTunes without the DRM plus VLC plus WinAmp, on Steroids, with good support, for under $100. Worth every penny.

I rip with EAC.

quote:

Just rip whatever CDs you want. Loaners, yours, used, new, whatever...

Let your conscience guide you, because no one else can tell or will ever know. Ease your mind.

Really? And you're casting shade on Spotify and their spotty rep for reimbursement?

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:

quote:

Just rip whatever CDs you want. Loaners, yours, used, new, whatever...

Let your conscience guide you, because no one else can tell or will ever know. Ease your mind.

Really? And you're casting shade on Spotify and their spotty rep for reimbursement?

Run along now and quit trying to make something out of nothing. You don't know me or shit about this.

And yes, Spotify is trash for artists, through and through.

I believe the letter of the law is clear, is it not?

One can (and many do - see above) quibble about whether the law is enforced, or was justified, or should be paid attention to. And there are other opinions - how unfair the law is/was, etc.

I do not believe that was the gist of the OP's questions.

Question 1: If you own the CD, can you convert it to MP3 (or other digital formats) for your own use.
Yes.

Question 2: How does anyone know you have the CD?
They don't/can't. Like many laws, you can be accused of violations and then in that case would be grateful for evidence to disprove the accusations. If questioned (yes, this may never happen) then you can point to the physical CD to justify the possession of said digital copy

Question 3: If you buy a download, what is your proof of purchase?
Supplier records, email purchase documentation, etc. I buy downloads from Amazon and I can search my purchase history. They also send email purchase confirmation that also could document legal purchase.

Question 4: How long would the proofs of purchase need to be kept?
IANAL, but I'd keep them as long as I would want to disprove any accusation of possibly having an illegal copy. So, either forever, or until I no longer have the file, whichever comes first.

Question 5: Can I sell an MP3 I bought?
Most likely, not. Most of these are 'bought' as licenses, and if that applies, then the terms of the license restrict what you can do with the file.

Question 6: Why is the new norm to stream rather than own?
It's easier, but less under your own control and possibly more expensive. If you have enough music and don't need a new source for it, then why pay for a streaming service when you can just have your player software cycle through your already-RIPed collection? But for folks haven't already accumulated a collection of digital music that meets their needs (those who don't already have a CD collection to RIP, e.g.) or who don't want to go through the hassle of RIPing them, then streaming may be more cost-effective. Plus if you're looking for new music, you won't find that in your existing collection.

Question 7: Does streaming allow you to listen over and over as long as you want?
The streaming services have some flexibility - you'd have to look at specifics to find one that has the flexibility you want.

And, as to whether anyone is paying attention. That's a big 10-4, good buddies. I got a notice from the ISP at a rental house I own a few years back about copyright violations allegedly being done at an IP address controlled by that ISP which they correlated to a rental house I own. The copyright owners have big guns and - while they can't possibly catch everyone/everything - you still don't want big guns focused on you.