Yes vote here. Wasn't a fan of Caprica but the rest rocked.

It was fantastic. Yes the finale was a little weak but overall some of the best sci fi ever.

I love Dirk Benedict, I dug the original.....that said Kara Thrace IS STARBUCK. Katee Sackhoff knocked it out of the park. I am the first person to call out a gender change or sexual pref. Change or addition when it comes across as checking a box to appease some group or another. When it is done as part of good storytelling it can enhance the narrative and I honestly think Katee Sackhoff was an inspired STARBUCK.

Give it a go. It’s a HEAVY watch at times but Sci Fi at some of its best.

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Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Like Game of Thrones, the writers had absolutely no idea how to wrap it up.

Yeah, the ending wasn't great but it wasn't horrible. Meh is how I think of the end.

Without entirely spoiling it, a textbook example of Deus Ex Machina. But let's all be fair here, they were hardly the first series to pull that kinda stunt, nor will they be the last. This has all happened before, and it will happen again.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Without entirely spoiling it, a textbook example of Deus Ex Machina. But let's all be fair here, they were hardly the first series to pull that kinda stunt, nor will they be the last. This has all happened before, and it will happen again.

You are a bad man.

Definite yes.

I grew up watching the original series as a kid and really liked it, and was completely stoked when the reboot was announced...although I was initially pretty ticked off when it was announced that Starbuck was a woman. In fact overall, I wasn't happy initially with the number of differences between the original show's characters and the reboot cast characters. It took me several episodes before I grudgingly accepted Katee Sackoff as Starbuck. I really didn't like the fact that Boomer was played by a woman either and went through the same difficult transition. Ultimately I thought both women played their respective characters well, although in certain episodes in certain scenes the story line written for them made them flat out annoying.

In fact, although there were lapses in certain episodes and scenes in which the character's storyline made absolutely no sense, overall, the acting by the main cast members was superb. Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonald, James Callis, Michael Hogan were all inspirational choices, and Jamie Bamber and Katee Sackoff and Tahmoh Penikett, and several other cast members really played their characters well. Well enough in fact that I was pissed off when their characters were written out. Although he didn't appear in many episodes I really liked both the character and acting of Doc Cottle.

I found the BSG mini-series premiere to be superb. Spectacularly written and acted. In fact I'd say that was mostly true for the Seasons 1, 2& , 2.5. Seasons 3 & 4 were nothing short of bleak...in fact I think depressing is a better descriptor. The writers were killing off long time cast members so quickly over so many episodes it appeared as though there wouldn't be any humans left in the universe. But what bothered me even more was that long time characters had storylines written that caused them to behave in different ways, take actions the viewer was led to believe they weren't capable of, and just seemed like the writers/ directors were floundering so badly that they resorted to simply rewriting the nature of some of the characters for nothing more than the surprise factor and to inject yet more drama. I'll concede that drama is a necessary part of an entertaining interesting storyline, but several of BSG's episodes just got stupid silly manufacturing it...but this criticism extends well beyond BSG as I see this same sorry writing tool in other series (the series 24 is one that always comes to mind).

I will point out that while I enjoyed their characters and acting, after BSG became a commercial success several of the main characters started trying their hand at directing show episodes and this is where you start to see the wheels come off the wagon, in the later Seasons.

Speaking of drama the Producers/ Writers made an interesting, and in my mind, saavy decision. Any series that wants to be successful has to draw viewers and stay in budget. The Producers decided to broaden the appeal of BSG by trying to attract more viewers and especially women and so in many ways, while BSG is technically in the Sci-Fi genre, it is really more of a human and relationship drama...that just happens to take place in space ships in space. Dovetailed into this decision, to do spectacular SFX it costs big bucks, and in some cases lots of space battles and laser beams can drain show budgets while driving away some female viewers who aren't interested in such things...so the Producers scaled back the SFX for a few episodes, and then they would save up the $ and do some fairly impressive SFX say every 4th or 5th episode.

In addition to the initial mini-series I thought the first regular Season 1 episode (award winning) 33 and the episode The Hand of God (some of the best SFX ever exhibited in Sci-Fi) were outstanding. Same for the Pegasus appearance episode. Although I didn't like the later seasons I actually thought the final series episode was very well done (although there was room for improvement).

Also, I thought Bear McCreary's musical scoring of the BSG series was brilliant! I've become a huge fan of his in following him through different series.

Ultimately, partly to watch the episodes I missed and mostly because it has moments of brilliance (and some disappointing episodes and seasons as well) I picked up the original BSG series as well as Razor and The Plan. I caught a couple episodes of Caprica, they were ok, but I didn't stick with them.

I'd recommend watching the first 2.5 Seasons, and then depending on your reaction, decide whether to stick with it to the end. To this day I have a "love/ hate" feeling about this series.

The reboot started strong and got progressively worse as time went on. I eventually stopped watching it and told my son I'd finish watching it if I were ever in the hospital and had nothing else to do. I'd say the straw that broke the camel's back, but it would be a spoiler for the OP if he got that far.

It was meh. I wouldnt even have made it through season 2 if it wasnt for all the beautiful women.

Killing off Starbuck in the original 1970's BSG was brutal for the time.

Leaving him to starve to death alone, completely marooned on a barren planet.

I LOVED (and still do) the 3 hr miniseries pilot episode. From there, it got progressively darker and more depressing. I did not like it at first, because I typically do not like 'dark and gritty.' However, over time, I came to appreciate the series despite my initial dislikes.

There was very good character development and some outstanding stories. Granted, it was inevitable that the series got depressing, since only 50,000 people initially survived out of 20 billion. The show was more 'realistic' than the 1970s version (which I still love), but few people in 2003 would have gotten behind a show that had characters who survived such a holocaust to be all happy and chipper all the time. As much as I love Dirk Benedict and Lorne Greene, they simply could not have redone the series with the same upbeat outlook as the original series.


The ending was sort of rushed, and the writers themselves admitted that they just made it up as they went. And don't look for outstanding role models. Some other web site I read explained that there was really only one 'good person' in the entire cast (Karl Agathon?), and the rest were all deeply flawed. Even a 'good man' like Adama made bad decisions and acted contrary to what we would accept as 'honest and just' today. Again, this is what I would consider realistic after 99.9% of the population was just nuked.

In all, I really enjoyed the series, though I did not like the 'human' Cylons. I have enough suspension of disbelief to accept FTL drives and spaceships, and even the prophesies and 'angels' that come and go - but I simply cannot accept a machine that is indistinguishable from real humans, especially for a culture so technologically advanced as the colonists. To me, this was the weakest part of the show.

I actually ended up getting all 4 seasons on DVD, and I really enjoy the show.

Alright. I'll give it another shot.

Superb show. Weird, but, Give it a chance. Take your time with it.

At least it did have a definite ending. I like when a story is told to completion.

I didn't get into the lawyer aspects of the show but again, it did have a theme and direction - did humanity deserve to survive.

Razor was great. Even so, I didn't like the portrayal of Cain. She was a brilliant tactical commander but a crap strategist. There were far better answers to her many cruel decisions,... but it still did fit with the theme of the series; does humanity deserve to survive.

V.

quote:

Originally posted by White Phosphorus:

Razor was great. Even so, I didn't like the portrayal of Cain. She was a brilliant tactical commander but a crap strategist. There were far better answers to her many cruel decisions,... but it still did fit with the theme of the series; does humanity deserve to survive.

I never really stopped to consider this, but I really liked Cain. In the 70s show, he was, of course, the charming and charismatic Lloyd Bridges. For the reboot, they naturally went with somebody darker. I liked Michelle Forbes' (Ro Laren from Star Trek Next Gen) take on the character. Yes, she was a commander who did bad things. Yes, she made bad decisions. But, she fit in with the rest of the mood of the show and the continuity.

I like how Adama pointed out that she did not have a 'moral compass' like President Rosilyn to anchor her. She committed blatant war crimes against her own people, but this again showed how people can fall after faced with such a catastrophic situation. I can easily see many people in today's military go this route.

Now, she WAS a douchebag before the attack (as her treatment of the brand new Lieutenant right before the Cylon attack showed). But, she also had a 'softer' side and was loyal to her people. She was a very complex character.



In the episode "Pegasus" where the Pegasus (duh) first appears, the music is outstanding. It set the tone perfectly, and that scene was one of my favorite across ALL television (sci fi and other). The music throughout the series, starting with the miniseries, was outstanding. I've never seen/heard television that used music to this effect before or since. I think this is one of the best, and most overlooked, aspects of this show - how they used music to really set and maintain the tone of the show throughout its 4 seasons.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
... My biggest objection was the "humanizing" of the Cylons. To me, one of the biggest attractions of the original show were the emotionless automatons with their evil red, constantly oscillating "eye" beams. Turning them into human form with emotions and appearances seemed to contradict the basic premise of the show. ...

That's exactly why I couldn't make it through the first episode.

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Originally posted by mark123:

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
... My biggest objection was the "humanizing" of the Cylons. To me, one of the biggest attractions of the original show were the emotionless automatons with their evil red, constantly oscillating "eye" beams. Turning them into human form with emotions and appearances seemed to contradict the basic premise of the show. ...

That's exactly why I couldn't make it through the first episode.

If you feel like you have the time to spare, you might try 'Caprica'. That show takes a while, but explains a lot.

The remake is, IMO, one of the best examples of science-fiction in our modern age. There have been quite a few sci-fi series that are set in upbeat environments, but Ron Moore's BSG remake boldly goes where no one wants to go and then effectively asks "who will we be if we come back from there?"

There is definitely a progression going from gritty humanistic survival to the metaphysical. The more metaphysical the show got, the less relatable the characters became--which was a definite flaw and is my explanation for why the last season wasn't as strong as the earlier ones despite being less dark. There were definitely some weak "filler" episodes along the way. "Black Market", for example was fittingly reviled, frustrating to watch, and ultimately irrelevant to the progression of the series.

It may be easier to think of Cylons as children than robots. The "skin jobs" in fact, call themselves "Humanity's Children."

quote:

Originally posted by goose5:
Alright. I'll give it another shot.

I tried to rewatch the series a few months ago. After the first few episodes, I got tired of Starbuck's attitude toward everyone and quit. I wasn't going to put myself through all of that again. Not to mention the annoying religious theme pervasive in the second season.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
My biggest objection was the "humanizing" of the Cylons. To me, one of the biggest attractions of the original show were the emotionless automatons with their evil red, constantly oscillating "eye" beams. Turning them into human form with emotions and appearances seemed to contradict the basic premise of the show.

There is reason and payoff to the humanoid cylons. I wished that they held back the reveal of them until the second season, with only illusions to them in the first season. They traded a terminator like adversary for actor driven drama. They probably could have even used 90% of the humanoid scenes in the first season with some minor tweaks to not give away the cylon connection. Also to those who didn’t like the religious tones, it’s kind of the whole plots underpinning.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

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Originally posted by goose5:
I just could not get on board with Edward James Olmos as Adama.

He was one of our favorite characters in the series.

Olmos as Adama was interesting. I enjoyed him in this roll. Olmos said he took the role because he couldn't recall a Mexican in Space. Nor could I.