December 20, 2017, 07:29 PM
Batty67Saw with my son back from college.
I'm in-between the extremes. I thought it was a muddled mess, with no central vision or story. Like it or not, George Lucas had a story and creative control for his movies. I was moderately entertained.
So many, perhaps most, of the many negatives have been discussed.
Here's my biggie: I did medieval recreational fighting for 25 years...I don't care how much of a natural a person is (Rey), with lickity-split twitch reflexes, superior training wins 9 out of 10 times minimum. The footwork, flowing from defense to strikes and back again, does not just happen. Yes, really instinctive fighters will intuitively start doing the right things very quickly, but they will do them inefficiently and make mistakes...fatal ones. Snoke's defenders were obviously superbly trained. So was Kylo Ren. But Rey just defeats them mostly easily. Nope.
One nice positive, Luke absolutely schools her when they fight with staves, mechanically and out of experience and training. When she used the Force, different story.
December 20, 2017, 07:56 PM
Rey HRHI do realize one unforgivable error in this movie: they just all up and forgot the watershed signature effect that the first Star Wars movie brought for sci fi fans.
For those who don't know, the first Star Wars movie brought something to the screen no other scifi spaceship movie brought: dirty looking exteriors of space ships. The one exception which made me remember are the crafts the rebellion used in the end to defeat the outpost. That made me remember the empire ships were all pristine, the rebel fighter and bomber ships were very close to pristine if not completely pristine, and the rebel spaceships were also pristine. Even the milenium falcon seemed none the worse for wear.
December 20, 2017, 10:22 PM
KevboAnother thing that's been bothering me
Every resistance ship, fighters included, has hyperspace capabilities. This was a hallmark of the hit and run raids of the rebellion, and one of their advantages, and was shown well in Rogue One
The first order (inexplicably) has one tracker
So divide your resources amongst 50 ships, have those 50 ships jump to 50 different places...problem solved for 49 of them
Instead we got the OJ Simpson White Bronco chase in space
The more I think about this movie, the more irritated I get
December 21, 2017, 01:18 PM
PrefontaineWatched it. I get guest passes for the theater chain I most frequently use sometimes, and also buy passes from Costco for $17 a pair. I had to see what the hub-un was all about, and considering I can use a pass I said the hell with it. This pass I got for free from the theater manager for them leaving the lights on during the start of “Good Time” which is the best film I’ve seen this year. Wanna see a film that blow your mind with real mind bending twists from the very beginning until the end including a robbery, rent Good Time.
So I get it to the theater with my theater pass. There are guest passes (given by theater management) and the discount passes I purchase at Costco, and I use the guest pass. Theater employee denies its’ use because “You can’t use that for a few more days. Disney doesn’t allow them for the first week or so.” I respond “This was given to me by a manager” and it is refused. I’m already there, fuck it. Disney is so greedy you can’t even use a theater given pass for their shit and they have a contract/policy with no just this chain of theaters but I’m sure all. Man that’s greedy.
My review...I do not have the issues with anything others have. Luke milks a tattay for milk, big deal, he also then catches some fish with some 30 story spear. All either is, is seeing him do boring tasks of his mundane life. It didn’t gross me out, nor did I think it was any big deal. Also wasn’t a big deal to see him chunk the light saber given by Rey, over his shoulder. Leia’s Time space continuum or whatever the f was not a big deal either. She has the force too, just not like Luke. My goodness the big deal made about that I do not understand. The Casino was also not a big deal at all. And it was interesting to learn that the folks selling X-Wings were the same selling the Empire or sorry, the First Order, ships and weapons. Likewise Rey and Kylo talking to each via the Force, man iirc, Leia and Luke were doing that shit in ROTJ. Again iirc “Luke was on that ship” and Leia says something like nah, he’s safe, I can feel it. Beginnings of this type of shit were in the first trilogy, BFD!
The whole film was flat in my opinion, no better or worse than TFA. I think the script sucked. I agree with others on a lot. Why not use Luke in a better way. Teach Rey, some other new Jedis, etc? Just bitch out? I think Disney and Johnson went simpleton on this and did the Obi-Wan deal. Old man, then let him get struck down or kill him self. Not the same, but stems from the same shit. The whole film, even though long, felt like condensed characters or events, everything felt small. The chase at full speed but not warp speed. The Casino stuff, Han’s island (especially that moss black hole and Rey’s scene touching the ice/glass and having 50 of her in a row), the rebel base at the end of the film, everything felt real small in scale. At least Lucas, even the prequels, everything felt vast, large, more people or characters. The worlds and places felt so large, like a bigger universe. This film felt chintzy. Lucas had so much going at once, these new Disney films just cannot do that. And even JJ, which I think sucks a big bag of dicks, was better at it even though I’d slot this new film in at the same rating all the way around.
What bothered me is the over the top multi-cultural, multi-sex bs. As soon as the Asian girl enters with her stun gun, etc, from then on it’s a diversity film. And no offense to that young woman but she couldn’t act, her haircut looked absolutely ridiculous. It’s like they were in a film meeting stating “I think that character should be female, Asian, and Emo.” Which brings me to a bigger point. Us older or old fuckers, these films aren’t meant for us. They are meant for millennial snowflakes. Everyone needs to be included, Black, white, Asian (I don’t recall seeing Mexicans, correct me if I’m wrong), we need a heavy presence of female leads and title characters. IMO, Disney wanted to cover the Asian markets 100%. That Chinese money is huge now. Some film studios will make some piece of trash on purpose, or giving a damn about the domestic market because they know once it’s in Chinese theaters, there is big money there. So Disney is taking the inclusion approach, and to them that is more important than the script, characters, or anything else, it supersedes anything and everything. It’s also geared for that millennial money, and was t made for us. They have quickly killed off the legacy stars so they can focus on the rebuild with young actors, who they don’t have to pay the big money too. Rey, Finn, this Asian girl, are all young. They are millennial or whatever themselves, so kids, whether elementary aged or high schoolers can look up to as the new breed, the new rebel alliance, the new force, etc. Disney purposely showed the kid at the end using the Force for them. Their goal is to hook a whole new generation, not serve existing older clients who grew up as kids or teenagers seeing the first 3 movies of the franchise starting in 1977.
Overall I’d give the film a B-, my same rating as TFA. Rogue One, due to some better acting, a B. No A- or above rated films since the original trilogy. TFA, TLJ, R1, have all made me appreciate the prequels a little more. Say what you want about Lucas, Jar-Jar, etc, at least his heart was in it. Lucas made some really poor casting decisions on the prequels, specifically Hayden Christensen (just a whiney mouth breathing sorry ass actor, in anything, not just Star Wars, what else has he done worth a damn?) and Samuel Jackson (who I greatly respect in many other films he’s been in)......but this new deal or Disney run deal, oh my. Daisey Ridley is good, but Boyega is terrible, can’t act worth a damn, I feel the same about Adam Driver, who should go back to that antifa Girls who on HBO. He’s just not worth a damn. Oscar Isaac is a really good actor but his lines in these movies are awful, his character isn’t any good either. He should have just skipped this whole thing. Gleeson is a pretty good actor, big big fan of his father, but his lines and acting are terrrible in these films, straight b movie stuff. Laura Dean is a good actress too, but doesn’t belong in a space film. And neither does Benicio Del Toro, who is such a bad ass actor, who I’ve followed and watched since he was young, in License to Kill (1989), a Tim Dalton Bond film. These actors just don’t belong, just like Forest Whitaker in R1. Disney hires these serious, phenomenal actors then gives them shit lines and shit directing.
At the end of the day, directing one of these films, or writing a script is committee run. Don’t blame Johnson for all this. He had Kennedy and bean counters involved with every letter of the screenplay and every frame. I’d be surprised if he didn’t say f the whole lot and company. A good director cannot do their job with someone up their ass with everything. Sad to see him be the fall guy because I know better. Disney is a shitty, greedy company, who cares about one thing only, money. They don’t care about anything else. They don’t care about you or your kids at their theme parks, their films, toys, or anything else, it’s just a money game. They probably use complex algorithms on all these decisions they make, and you don’t make films that way. So in conclusion, Imexpected this film to be a whole lot worse. But like R1, TFA, there is no magic, nothing special. It’s Transformers like Star Wars now, utilizing the original trilogy stories, modifying them to snowflakes, and trying to make money. You have to really care to make great films, your heart has to be in it. You can tell with these Disney films, nobody’s heart is in it. Not the directors, and the only actor I see any passion or decent acting from is Daisley Ridley. Everyone else is just flat, including the stories themselves. These are popcorn films, and nothing more. TLJ, I laughed once and only once. When the storm troopers showed Kylo throwing yet another temper tantrum, and did a 180. Same thing with this film, when Kylo wanted to go down on the ground and Gleeson got forced upside the wall and the pilot says “right away” or something.
And lastly Luke Skywalker. A hero in film and sci-fi, people have waited 30+ years see him as a master, and kick some ass. I’d just would have rather no prequels, no Disney Star Wars, nothing. I saw a sequel this year that was truly worthy and a remarkable film, Blade Runner 2049. Such a great film, and sequel. Most remakes, conintuations, meh, terrible. And I’m done with Disney. Standing there getting told last night that I could not use my guest theater pass because Disney x, y, z (I’ve used these theater guest passes for many other films), I’m just tired of that company. Only thing I can do is vote with my wallet. If you really want to see something, go on YouTube and find the mashup Mark Hamill interviews about TLJ. He was telling it 100 if you listen to what he says. In one of them he makes a Michael Bay Transformers reference, and it was dead on. That’s what these new Disney films are. Transformers type Star Wars films. Bad scripts, directing, and acting designed with algorithms to get your money. If I go to the theater I want to see Grade A films. I’m sticking to independent Oscar type films, which are my favorites. Great stories, screenplays, acting, and directing. Sorry for the long post. This for me, like many of you, was a love affair as a child. I loved the original trilogy, I even loved ROTJ. Like Mark Hamill said in one of the referenced interviews...if you expect to recapture the magic of your youth be prepared to be disappointed. I’m not disappointed in TLJ, it was about what I expected. I’m disappointed that Disney owns the rights and have been since the deal was announced.
December 21, 2017, 08:26 PM
thundersonTook my son to see it today. I've not been super charged for a Star Wars film in a long time so I had no problem reading through this thread before going. That was a huge help. It set my expectations low and I ended up being able to enjoy the film. Had I not seen the spoilers I'd have been more irritated with it.
There was not a single theme that hadn't already been explored by the other movies in this film.
The only thing I really enjoyed theme wise was the fact that it was indeed time for the Jedi to change from what they were. The prequels did a very good job showing that the Jedi and their mistakes were very much a part of causing the whole shit show from the beginning. In this movie I loved the imagery of the Light represented at the top of the island, the dark at the bottom, and the green(neutral) in the center, and in the center of that was the Holy writings of the Jedi, in a no longer green but dead tree. It was truly time.
For all of it's many faults the movie did have one thing going for it imo. The depiction of the capital ship going into hyperspace and splitting through the other capital ship was one of the coolest things ever from any Star Wars movie. They did that very well.
I would have preferred it if Leia had taken that hyperspace ride through the capital ship instead of Laura Dern. Honestly I was done with Leia by ROTJ.
Benicio Del Toro was a pleasant surprise. I had missed the fact that he was in it.
December 22, 2017, 03:38 PM
corsairMore TLJ story bursting...
Wrapping presents with ANH playing the background....Being able to track thru hyperspace was already established in ANH.
After Vader kills Obi Wan aboard the Death Star, and the Falcon escapes with the tractor beam shut-down, Moff Tarkin asks Vader if the homing beacon will work,
I'm taking an awful risk. Meanwhile, inside the Falcon on the way to Yavin 4, Solo and Leia chit-chat about his reasons for her rescue and Han's prowess, to which Leia tells Han that they let us go.
