Holy shit, what an incredibly well done, heartbreaking, and moving series. I didn't read the books, but I traded in sleep to binge watch the entire series in 3 nights.

My wife and I just finished it the other night as well. Though we didn't do it in 3 days or anything.

I agree it was a very well done show with good acting. Pretty bleak outlook though. And while yes, there was a lot of "teenage drama" that made me want to roll my eyes a bit with how the characters were reacting, I realize that those situations/reactions are real to a lot of teenagers.

Do high schools give their kids that much freedom in real life? I graduated in 2001 from a very nice suburban high school in KS and we always had multiple security guards roaming the halls as well as stopping all cars/foot traffic coming and going from the school to catch kids trying to ditch or anything else.

Closed campus versus open campus, I think is what the terms are called.

My campus didn't have gates, so you could walk on and off the campus if you knew where to go. Some campuses are completely enclosed like a prison. Guess it just depends--they mentioned that it was sort of a small town.

Nobody else watching?

I don't think how depressing this show is can be overemphasized. I would not recommend this to anyone and particularly not to young people without an adult presence as a resource for the necessary conversations that this show brings up. The show itself is not a good resource nor does it point someone who may be suicidal or who knows someone suicidal to good resources. At the very least it has warnings for the needlessly graphic and explicit scenes.

I've heard criticism that it glorifies and makes teen suicide sound like a viable option to life's problems and that's something we don't need right now, that's for damn sure.

quote:

Originally posted by KShooter:
My wife and I just finished it the other night as well. Though we didn't do it in 3 days or anything.

I agree it was a very well done show with good acting. Pretty bleak outlook though. And while yes, there was a lot of "teenage drama" that made me want to roll my eyes a bit with how the characters were reacting, I realize that those situations/reactions are real to a lot of teenagers.

Do high schools give their kids that much freedom in real life? I graduated in 2001 from a very nice suburban high school in KS and we always had multiple security guards roaming the halls as well as stopping all cars/foot traffic coming and going from the school to catch kids trying to ditch or anything else.

I have not seen the series yet. I too graduated from High School and have never heard of such a thing like you are referencing your school was like.

We had 1 deputy sheriff who just hung around.

No one checking who was coming or going nor have I ever heard of such a thing.

They took roll every other class period in the classroom but that was it.
Seniors could leave for lunch. Many of us only went half days.

But back to the original post.
The local talk radio shows have all been in a fuss over this show and how horrible it is for High School kids to watch and they should not be allowed to watch it.

They even had an expert on that was citing statistics how how suicides were up specifically related to people having watched the show.
Quite the BS meter on that one since it had only been out a couple of weeks at the time of the show, no way there were any statistic gathered yet.

I don't think it glorifies suicide at all.

It really makes it clear how painful suicide is for everyone.

I think it does a good job serving as warning that bullying isn't always overt, and that it's never just any one person causing another to commit suicide... but that every time you turn a blind eye to someone else getting bullied, that you are part of the problem.

I watched part of the "Making Of" episode, and one of the things they mentioned was they wanted to treat their teenage audience as young adults, and not dilute any of it down for "kids."

I disagree, my opinion is that it glorifies suicide and makes the girl out to be a huge victim of everyone else's insensitivity. I think it plays to the victim idea that "they'll all be sorry when I'm gone" and at no point does the show make the girl out to be anything other than an innocent person. I was totally disgusted by the series.

Where is the responsibility of the victim to not kill themselves? It was everyone's fault except the person who decided to commit suicide.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I disagree, my opinion is that it glorifies suicide and makes the girl out to be a huge victim of everyone else's insensitivity. I think it plays to the victim idea that "they'll all be sorry when I'm gone" and at no point does the show make the girl out to be anything other than an innocent person. I was totally disgusted by the series.

Where is the responsibility of the victim to not kill themselves? It was everyone's fault except the person who decided to commit suicide.

I know where you're coming from. I agree with your sentiments about responsibility. I read that one of the writers recently said that he's proud of the show for the discussions that people are now having. He'd be glad for this discussion right here. I disagree that this show "glorifies" suicide. That's ridiculous. Who would? The guy is right. He presented a story. People who commit suicide may blame others. You may think the writers/producers had a responsibility to to do more than just present a story. I somewhat agree. I also wish they did more to be a resource for real people in similar situations.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I disagree, my opinion is that it glorifies suicide and makes the girl out to be a huge victim of everyone else's insensitivity. I think it plays to the victim idea that "they'll all be sorry when I'm gone" and at no point does the show make the girl out to be anything other than an innocent person. I was totally disgusted by the series.

Where is the responsibility of the victim to not kill themselves? It was everyone's fault except the person who decided to commit suicide.

It's like we watched different shows, which is okay I guess.

***spoilers***

I don't see how you could get "they'll all be sorry when I'm gone" when she was pretty explicit about everyone being "better off without me." Those are entirely opposing viewpoints---one seeks to show people how much a person is needed by being gone, the other is going to remove the burden.

We see "Hannah as a burden" as a repeating theme, but particularly towards the end where the reasons for her suicide become less about teasing and more about real internal crisis. It starts with her friend getting raped--and her hating herself for not being a better friend to stop it ("better off without me"), then she pushes her friend Clay away because she doesn't think she's good enough for him ("better off without me"), and she loses the money her parents trusted her with (again, "better off..."), then she doesn't stick up for herself and leaves the Stop sign down so that Jeff dies (blames herself for his death). Final straw, she gets raped, and she isn't out to get revenge, but she's out to seek help, and the counselor can't even be bothered to go out of his way to help her. Everyone's just better off without her. And off she slips into her death.

It shows that Hannah is flawed. That her flaws allow all these individual events to build up into larger events...a series of poor decisions that lead to a final poor decision. It's really very explicit about how Hannah knows she's making these poor decisions, at least in retrospect, but she simply isn't emotionally strong enough to take it all.

I guess the point of the show was to introduce people to the idea that we all share in placing straws on the camel's back, and that we can't always know when the straws will be too much to bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
I also wish they did more to be a resource for real people in similar situations.

I think the real value in the show is to create compassion in the rest of us. It's not that Hannah, or anyone for that matter, has lack of resources. It's that, in a perfect/better world, every single one of us would be a resource.

The show isn't for the Hannahs out there to learn that their guidance counselor might be too busy for them, it's for the Clays, Jessicas, and Alexes out there to be remind them to be better friends to the Hannahs.

That's fine for the rest of us, and I agree it was effective there, but it's sorely lacking as a resource for the Hannahs, and I'm close to being disgusted at the treatment of, and the blame placed on, the guidance counselor.

While it certainly looks well done, I think I'll be avoiding it rather than piling nor depression and angst onto real life issues. Maybe if I had a bunch mire free time I would.

Then again I'm due for a new series to watch while I'm in the dungeon cutting leather. Maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
That's fine for the rest of us, and I agree it was effective there, but it's sorely lacking as a resource for the Hannahs, and I'm close to being disgusted at the treatment of, and the blame placed on, the guidance counselor.

I don't see any blame placed on anyone. The counselor was professional, personable, interested, and was looking out for the well-being of his students. Could be have pushed her harder to be open with him? Perhaps, but he would only have known that in retrospect. The point though, is that, this could have happened to anyone.

Everyone interprets these things according to their own glasses. Hannah and Clay clearly blamed the counselor in my view.

The guidance counselor was completely unqualified to help her and had admitted it.

Wife has been watching it and I've caught some. Can't stand it.

I welcome your alternative views. Always interesting to see how different people interpret shows, art and music differently.

I couldn't stand the show. Obviously it's popular, mine is not the majority opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I've heard criticism that it glorifies and makes teen suicide sound like a viable option to life's problems and that's something we don't need right now, that's for damn sure.

My wife is a high school teacher and hates it for that reason. Sends the wrong message.