Six pounds unloaded, 7+1 capacity

Should be a fantastic house gun

A300 Ultima Patrol 20 Gauge

I like lighter, quick handling guns. It would be plenty for me. Sounds like that new ammo he mentioned, #2 Buck would be a winner also.

That would be great for my daughters who are quite small. They shoot my 12 gauge Versa Max Tactical but prefer a 20 gauge pump we have that is significantly lighter and smaller.

I think this one will be a winner for Beretta. I like it.

Too late for me but I wonder...is 20 gauge ammo cheaper than 12?

I grabbed two boxes of Hornady 00 Buck and it was almost $2/shell. Grabbed some Olin military that was a lot less expensive, like $170 (incl s/h) for 250 rounds.

I haven't checked. Perhaps, perhaps not. One thing I can say to a certainty is that 20 gauge has far fewer choices for defensive ammunition than 12 gauge, and that's an understatement, but, Federal, Winchester and Remington do offer 20 gauge loads tailored for defense.

quote:

Too late for me but I wonder...is 20 gauge ammo cheaper than 12?

A quick, non-exhaustive search (on Midway's site) shows that game loads are roughly the same, but defensive buckshot is just as much or more, over $2 a shot, and there are fewer options for it.

My question is, with the shotgun being proportionately lighter and smaller, whether there is less actual felt recoil imparted to your shoulder. It didn't seem to be directly addressed in the video, and the shooters in it are obviously younger, fitter and more experienced than I. On the other hand, I assume the action is gas-operated, which is supposed to help.

A year too late

If the 1301 came out with a 20 gauge model, I would have bought it instead of the 12 g; softer recoil (especially in a semi-auto) and lighter and smaller. 20 gauge is nothing to sneeze at in regards to defense, more than adequate, and now we seem to have more choices in defensive ammo.

Whats exactly makes certain types of 00 buck "defensive"?

I still haven't gotten out to shoot mine. Light mount gets in today, so maybe next week. I look forward to seeing what a semi is like vs a pump.

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Whats exactly makes certain types of 00 buck "defensive"?

Apart from reliability concerns, some cheap ammo will pattern like shit. I had an agency send a guy with some garbage 00 to the range one time that wouldn't keep all the pellets on a torso-sized target at 7 yards. It wasn't the gun, either, as the same gun would make a fist-sized hole with our Federal LE stuff. I refused to qualify him with that ammo as I deemed it unsafe and unfit for duty since we have to be accountable for every projectile, and you ought to be able to do that with any halfway decent load out to at least 20 yards or so.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
Whats exactly makes certain types of 00 buck "defensive"?

Using my 1301 Mod 2, the first shot is with some cheap Rio 00 Buckshot, actually not bad. The 2nd shot is with Federal Flitecontrol 00 Buck. The bullseye is 8".

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Too late for me but I wonder...is 20 gauge ammo cheaper than 12?

My question is, with the shotgun being proportionately lighter and smaller, whether there is less actual felt recoil imparted to your shoulder. It didn't seem to be directly addressed in the video, and the shooters in it are obviously younger, fitter and more experienced than I. On the other hand, I assume the action is gas-operated, which is supposed to help.

I shot tens of thousands of rounds of shot shells between skeet, trap, and sporting clays. Mainly with over-unders, but some with recoil and gas operated guns. 12, 20, and 28 gauge, plus 410 bore. My 20 gauge gun is noticeably lighter than my 12 gauge. 20 gauge ammo has less muzzle energy and produces less recoil than 12 gauge. So...to a certain extent the lighter weight 20 gun increases felt recoil. In my experience the net result is less recoil from a 20 gauge system. The net result might vary a bit by manufacturer and type, but definitely found it less wearing on me to shoot 20 gauge than 12 -- regardless of whether it was a few rounds or hundreds of rounds in a day.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
Too late for me but I wonder...is 20 gauge ammo cheaper than 12?

I grabbed two boxes of Hornady 00 Buck and it was almost $2/shell. Grabbed some Olin military that was a lot less expensive, like $170 (incl s/h) for 250 rounds.

Be careful with that Olin/Winchester military grade stuff. The case I had the shells would bend if left loaded in the tube for several months. Maybe it was just that lot, but I removed it from the home defense shotgun and restricted it to practice only.

That's what I hope to use it for.

quote:

Whats exactly makes certain types of 00 buck "defensive"?

Most buckshot is geared toward hunting. You can get 00 buck or 1-oz slugs as fast as 1600 fps advertised. You can certainly use it on two-legged creatures, but can you control it in fast follow-up shots? At least some defensive 00 buck loadings have "managed" (i.e., reduced) recoil. For example, in my Benelli Nova Tactical, "regular" (advertised at 1325 fps) 00 packs more wallop than I care to shoot, but some Winchester Defender (also 00, but advertised 1145 fps) was much easier on the shoulder. (The Nova is also a pump, and with a semi-hard rubber recoil pad.) It also seemed to pattern tighter. The devastating wounding from shotguns comes from the pellets striking all at once in a concentrated area. The target posted by oddball with the single large hole is what you really want.

Had Beretta offered this alongside the 12ga. version I may have went this route.

Now watch, with my luck Mossberg will make a 20ga. 990 soon.

Flitecontrol 20 ga # 2 buck

'In fact, the 20-gauge Federal Premium with FliteControl wads recoils significantly more than the 12-gauge 1,145 feet per second loads.'


Lighter shotgun, but the load seems to defeat the purpose.

I've been waffling for several days on which SA defensive shotgun to buy.

I have a 590A for that purpose now, but when I most recently went to practice with it, I felt like my muscle memory of running a pump shotgun had almost entirely left me -I shoot SA shotguns or O/U for hunting purposes and get more trigger time with those types.

This thread convinced me to pull the trigger and make the manual of arms the same between my hunting gun and my defensive gun.

I did not order the 20GA, but found the 12GA for $799 which seemed too good to pass up.

This is just the answer to my want, a semiauto 20 Ga shotgun from a top notch manufacturer. This I can surely shoulder without killing it.

quote:

Originally posted by greyeyezz:
Flitecontrol 20 ga # 2 buck

'In fact, the 20-gauge Federal Premium with FliteControl wads recoils significantly more than the 12-gauge 1,145 feet per second loads.'

Lighter shotgun, but the load seems to defeat the purpose.

I can’t account for his experience, but doing the math off of Federal’s website for the Flite Control in 12 and 20, and adjusting for the varying weight of the guns, it works out to 13.9 ft lbs in 20 ga compared to 18.4 for the 12 ga.