The price difference between the Beretta 692 Sport with B-Fast and the Citori 725 Sport with adjustable comb and Graco adjustable butt and recoil reducer is about $500. The Beretta costing more. Both guns are about 3 years old.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
The price difference between the Beretta 692 Sport with B-Fast and the Citori 725 Sport with adjustable comb and Graco adjustable butt and recoil reducer is about $500. The Beretta costing more. Both guns are about 3 years old.

Nice, but do either of them fit you? It's like magic when you find and shoot a gun that shoots where you look/point it. You can spend lots or little. I loaned my best friend my 686/12 gauge, 28 inch barrels. He shot it very well. It fit him too. I found one for him shortly after that. He's deadly with it. Do you understand cast on. Cast off? Are you right eye or left eye dominate. Take your time in this search. Read up and learn. You will be handsomely rewarded when the firearm you purchase shoots well for you.

I would suggest getting the Browning. Learned last weekend that the Beretta 692 is now exhibiting issues with the intertial reset. Specifically with some guns what is happening is after a couple of years of use it's not possible to shoot doubles using the bottom barrel first. What happens is you get a dead trigger after the bottom barrel fires. What shooters who have this model are doing is setting their guns to fire with the top barrel first, a less than ideal setup for shooting doubles because you get a bit more muzzle rise when firing the top barrel.

From my research the 692 experienced a number of problems the first few years then Beretta seems to have worked out the bugs. Eventually the 694 replaced the 692.
I'm still looking, a Caesar Guerini Summit Ascent is my next gun to investigate.

A local shop where I get my cleaning essentials sells the Guerini. Don't have any experience at all shooting this brand but they are exceptionally lovely to look at. Unlike Beretta who uses quarter sawn ruler straight grained walnut for the entry level 686 with a Guerini you can be certain the wood will be grade 3 or higher. If I ever remember to pick up a lottery ticket and win I fully intend to get one just to try out.

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Originally posted by armored:
I'm still looking, a Caesar Guerini Summit Ascent is my next gun to investigate.

It's been a few years since I've competed, but I shot Guerini and there were other competitors with them.

My take:
- They have really good wood. Better than just about anything I've seen in this price category.
- Their actions were not as tight as the B guns. They loosened up too soon IMO.
- Their balance was good, but nothing special. Closer to the hinge pin than Browning. Not as nice as Beretta.
- Ultimately I decided against buying a Guerini. Aesthetically nicer than my Browning 525, but no better in function.

I feel they emphasized having a good looking gun for a given price point, rather than offering a better gun for that price point.

Beretta silver pigeon 12 gauge O/U is a solid gun that will last you. New they're $1700-2000 so if you can find one used, they should be in your price range. Fabarm makes an excellent quality shotgun at relatively lower prices.

Personally I prefer semi-auto. Haven't had anyone complain about the ejecting shells, but picking them up is well not as much fun, but plenty of cheap claws you can buy to pick them up without bending down.

I shoot a Krieghoff for skeet which is out of your ballpark, but my bird gun of choice is a Browning Citori O/U, so I use it for sporting clays. I shoot trap with an old SKB O/U doubles gun but they are no longer made. I have several SKB's of that genre, and other than springs and small parts I do not think it is possible to wear one out. I also have an older Weatherby Orion that was made by SKB with the Greener crossbolt, and it locks up like a bank vault, but the new Orion has a different lock design that I have no experience with. Beretta and Guerini also make fine firearms. I cannot speak to CZ and I have not shot one. All of those guns are available within your price range.

I agree with posts above, gun fit is the first most important aspect of choosing a shotgun in terms of gun mount, pointability, and recoil management. I have seen so many new shooters discouraged, and beat up by shooting a gun that does not fit them. Shotguns are manufactured to the "average" person, but what the hell is that? If you fit into the magical "average", you are fortunate. But if not, as mentioned above, an adjustable Graco pad/recoil reducer and adjustable comb makes the gun adjustable to you. Bad advice on gun fit is available wholesale. Whichever gun you choose, have an experienced gunfitter adjust the gun to you, and once it is dialed in by a pro, DON'T SCREW WITH IT. Fit will relieve a lot of frustration in getting hits from the start. The Country Gentleman is a professional gunfitter who travels all over the country to tournaments in a mobile shop, and I can recommend his work. There are other gun fitters, but here is a link to one whose work I know. https://www.gunfitter.com/

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
The Country Gentleman is a professional gunfitter who travels all over the country to tournaments in a mobile shop, and I can recommend his work.

Trivia: I took a shotgun to his Dad who started the business in a small operation. I had probably changed my stance, the gun I had shot for years had recently started hitting me in the face. He put on an adjustable buttplate and cut the stock-receiver inlet to give more pitch. It was more comfortable to shoot, but the changes took me off the target and my scores plummeted. I took the gun to my neighbor the gunsmith who returned the pitch to standard and backed about half the drop and twist adjustment off the buttplate. That was enough to save my cheek and got me back on target.

I also shoot a Beretta 686. I do not see the need to upgrade unless I was going to shoot for a living.

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Originally posted by heavyd:
I also shoot a Beretta 686. I do not see the need to upgrade unless I was going to shoot for a living.

To tell the truth even if you shot for a living there really isn't any reason to upgrade from a 686. The two most important factors for a competitive shooter are 1) will it always work properly and 2) does it "Fit" properly.

Beretta has a reputation for the 680 series being rock solid reliable and if you have the money there are multitudes of options out there for building adjustable stocks or even having hand fitted made to measure stocks designed specifically for your body. Me, Ive gone to adjustable comb stocks on my 12 and 20 gage 686's.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I would suggest getting the Browning. Learned last weekend that the Beretta 692 is now exhibiting issues with the intertial reset. Specifically with some guns what is happening is after a couple of years of use it's not possible to shoot doubles using the bottom barrel first. What happens is you get a dead trigger after the bottom barrel fires. What shooters who have this model are doing is setting their guns to fire with the top barrel first, a less than ideal setup for shooting doubles because you get a bit more muzzle rise when firing the top barrel.

I had this issue with one of my 28 gauges, a model 686. A trip to Coleguns, who retimed it and problem solved. BUY a gun that fits.

Zoli Z gun EVO has crossed the radar.
Looks like a good gun that has poor resale thus lower price for a used one.
Dealer is over 350 miles away so looking for advice before making the trip.

In the end, you will get exactly what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
I feel the familiar feeling of wallet hemorrhage as I start looking. I'm a sucker for fine wood and craftsmanship also tradition.
The Browning Superposed has caught my attention.
I like the old school build and that Browning built and designed the gun. I have read about the "salt" guns and cracking of some of the steel internal parts.
How do you rate this gun?

A true Browning Superposed will start at 4000 dollars in used but not abused condition. BTW, with the Superposed the forearm is slid forward to break the gun down for transport, so you end up with just two parts to put in your case. With the more recent Browning's (really a Moroku) you first remove the forearm and set on something stable then remove the barrel from the receiver. This is one reason why the Superposed commands such high prices and the other is that they are highly collectable.

I have used a Browning BT-99 for trap since my Uncle helped me find one, almost 30 years ago.
He shot a Browning Superposed. He let me shoot it a few times and I thought it was really awesome.

I'm pleased to report that I just found one like it for a good price. It's a newer Browning Superposed Lighting 12 ga. The shotgun has hard to find 30" barrels with MOD and FULL choke. LOP is 14.5". The shotgun is in very good condition with with a fitted case, excellent mechanics (very tight) and perfect barrel condition. The gun was manufactured in 1972 (not a salt gun).

I'll post pics when I get it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chellim1,

I lost my direction and was won over by looks.
I found a beautiful Weatherby grade V Athena that was first production series made by SKB, for a very reasonable price. It has a Greener cross bolt lock up and locks like a vault. Looks to be hardly if ever used, still very stiff to open.
Comes to my shoulder and eye perfectly.

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101513995

This message has been edited. Last edited by: armored,

armored, That Weatherby ~ Athena Grade IV Field ~ 12 gauge is absolutely beautiful!

They come,they go.
The Weatherby was made about the same time as my Son was born, he just had his 33rd Birthday.
I gave him the Shotgun for his Birthday gift.

You’re a good father. Now you get to buy another one

Great gift, armored. I’m sure he will cherish it for a long time.