quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
[E]verything is different.

Good post, and the above points out a vital fact that far too many people seem incapable of understanding. Different problems require different solutions.

If all that mattered in a self-defensive situation was accuracy, I would put away my handguns and AR-type rifles and have my Tikka and Mark 6 scope—or better yet, a 6.5 Creedmoor TRG-22 with 8.5-25×50mm scopesight—standing beside my bed. I am far more precise with those guns than I am with any of my SIGs or Colt LE6920s. Does that make the Tikka or Sako more suited for home defense than a P226 or AR?

As I mentioned elsewhere even police SWAT teams are reevaluating their usual practice of using long guns for all clearance operations for precisely the reasons you discuss. And a team by definition consists of several highly-trained (usually), armed and armored individuals who are available and ready to immediately and overwhelmingly back up an officer whose weapon is deflected or being taken away from him. That’s seldom true of the homeowner who needs to investigate a strange noise.

In a situation where I would be looking for a killer armed with a long gun and who might have to be engaged down the length of a long hallway or across a large classroom, as I have practiced countless times, I will continue to rely on a rifle. If I must investigate a possible strange noise at home, however, and as I have also practiced, I will continue to rely on a P226 with WML and separate flashlight.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:


Cops miss 70% of their shots when using pistols. When using long guns, they miss 5% of their shots. We can reasonably assume that an average home defender would have very similar hit ratio's. You can have the latest blaster 3000 pistol, but at the end of they day, in the context of a dynamic home defense scenario, experience tells us you are likely to miss 70% of the shots you fire with a pistol. If you are average (and not John Wick).

.

Statistics can be misleading unless you know the context. What ranges? Indoors or outdoors? Unless these statistics are all from similar home defense scenarios, they are meaningless.

Plus, there is the fact that many cops panic in real shootouts and do mag dumps from their pistols, which are naturally going to have low hit ratios. Long guns are much more likely to be fired slowly and deliberately.

Finally, there are other considerations besides pure accuracy numbers that come into play, such as maneuvering in an enclosed space with a pistol vs. a long gun.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
The idea of muzzling a family member made me queazy. Off hand light was mandatory for me after that. Things suddenly come into view when you're using a flashlight in a dark house. One wrong shadow and a flick of the trigger and I could have killed a family member. I get it, don't shoot until you identify your target. But that pretends that we can control getting "spooked" and flinching. Your heart will be pounding, your gonna be nervous and a little scared...I just don't want to point a gun around when I'm like that. So how you going to handle your off hand flashlight and your long gun? If you're going to use a weapon mounted light, so be it, but I won't.

Off hand flashlight WITH a long gun?? Every weapon that is used for home defense should have a weapon mounted light on it, assuming there are options readily available to mount one. You don't HAVE to use it, but its nice to have when you really need it.

I can certainly understand the appeal of using an off hand flashlight with a pistol if you like, but a long gun?? It doesn't make sense. And don't tell me that your weapon mounted flashlight works like a laser and you have to point the gun directly at your wife and kids to see them. A 600-1000 lumen Surefire weapon light will light an entire room up when pointed at the floor or ceiling.

No wonder you don't want to use a long gun for home defense, you are doing it wrong.

If you've ever taken a defensive carbine course, there is a zero percent chance that you would still choose a pistol as primary home defense. Actually going through the motions, doing some hands on shooting, and seeing how you are 200 -300% better and faster with a long gun in your hands, removes any doubt. But I guess as is typical, you don't know what you don't know.

I’m not sure you understood my post, but it’s ok. We just don’t agree.

quote:

Dwill104

Plus, there is the fact that many cops panic in real shootouts and do mag dumps from their pistols, which are naturally going to have low hit ratios. Long guns are much more likely to be fired slowly and deliberately.

This doesn't make sense. "Panic" has to do with their reaction to a deadly force event, it is not affected by what is in their hand. Anyone who would "panic" and do a 15rd handgun mag dump would just do a 30rd mag dump with an AR in the same situation.

Regarding cops shooting rifles versus handguns. Most cops don't carry their rifle up to the car when they do a traffic stop. If they are responding to a sudden, unexpected threat, they are more likely to be doing it with a handgun in their hands than a rifle. By extension, they are more likely to be using a handgun when in panic mode (because of the sudden, unexpected threat) than when they have had time to deploy their rifle, perhaps while surrounding a bank with a robbery in progress.

We're getting far afield if we're talking about what cops do at traffic stops, or anywhere besides when they're at home themselves.

A pistol caliber carbine for home defense? Still a sound choice.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
We're getting far afield if we're talking about what cops do at traffic stops, or anywhere besides when they're at home themselves.

A pistol caliber carbine for home defense? Still a sound choice.

I was specifically addressing the statements about cops being more accurate with rifles and also just as likely to panic when using one as they are with a pistol. I was pointing out that the "statistics" are probably not an apples to apples comparison.

A Beretta cx4 storm carbine with a 20rnd mag sits next to our dresser 24-7, extra 30rnd mag in nightstand.

I went through a period where I kept a 9mm Carbine for HD. Owned a few over a period of years.
I still believe them to be a good choice.
But I rely upon an M1 Carbine for that now.

I’m paying close attention to the fightlite MXR, if they come through with the inexpensive conversions I’ll buy one in 9mm and a conversion to 10mm for it, that’ll go nicely with my g20, especially when the ets 30 round 10mm mags come out

Was able to put together a Glock carbine in 357Sig for cheap. Works for me.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Was able to put together a Glock carbine in 357Sig for cheap. Works for me.

That's interesting! Tell more, please?
Dependability/approximate round count?

Here is my carbine. It is an early MechTech with a Gen2 Glock lower. Added the holo dot and the skeleton stock later. The Gen2 works better for me as it has no finger grooves. It currently has a Salient trigger installed and it is just about the smoothest Glock I have.

Haven't had any problems with this other than those that were self induced.

Guessing about 3000+ rounds have been through it in this configuration so far.

Firing it isn't as loud as I thought it would be. Don't know if it is due to the longer barrel or the bolt style architecture.