jljones' recent and current thread about drawbacks to "lower tier" AR-15s got me thinking. Rather than hijack his thread with this question, even though I think it is a natural follow-up question, I'll start a new one. What are your favorites at different price points, and why? Not quite the same thing, but related, what do you think are the best values at different price points? Assume minimal, if any, swapping out of parts; best out of the box, ready to run, and likely to last, in every tier.

To be honest, for what I do, PSA is awesome and affordable. I have a dedicated side charging 22lr upper from Bear Creek Arsenal. I've actually visited their factory, sold to them and helped them solve an issue deburring BCG's.

That said I have BCM charging handles, Daniel defense BCG's, billet lowers and other bits. PSA offers FN barrels and toolcraft BCG's, so other than quality control/fit&finish, I can't think of any major differences.


I don't understand $2,000+ basic AR's unless you are using them professionally.

Para put his seal of approval on PSA as well in jljones' thread. I have looked at them in the past. I'm taking a fresh look at everything now. Thanks for the reply.

What I like about PSA is that they have low tier, and their Sabre line is a good med-high tier. Have been really happy with their products and service

As far as I'm concerned, a plain Jane lower, manufactured to specs, does the job just fine. Everything else is fluff. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't like fluff.

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
What I like about PSA is that they have low tier, and their Sabre line is a good med-high tier. Have been really happy with their products and service

Good to know.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
As far as I'm concerned, a plain Jane lower, manufactured to specs, does the job just fine. Everything else is fluff. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't like fluff.

Ok. What about the upper?

quote:

Originally posted by amals:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
As far as I'm concerned, a plain Jane lower, manufactured to specs, does the job just fine. Everything else is fluff. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't like fluff.

Ok. What about the upper?

Oh, I misunderstood the original question. I read it as "favorite lower"? What a moron.

I bought my PSA uppers before they did the Sabre and whatever lines. Whichever one comes with the FN barrel and the Toolcraft BCG is what you want. Honestly, I think that the quality for the price is incredibly hard to beat. PSA has their stuff figured out.

That handles the lower and mid tiers. I think if I was going to go upper tier, it's basically take your pick of whatever you think is most interesting. I've been on a bit of a Geissele kick starting back in October, and put together two URGI uppers with a mix of Colt, FN, and DD for uppers uppers and barrels with the requisite URGI parts. They're light and handy, and feel solid. Haven't had them to the range yet, but one of them was just a rail swap, and it was a reliable PSA upper before that, so it should be fine and just as reliable as before. Again, FN barrel and upper receiver.

If I was going to plunk down the cash for a new primo upper, I'd pick up a Super Duty during one of their sales, maybe one of the discontinued versions as they continue to make little tweaks and then blow out the prior configuration. I'm pretty sure on this last go-round, the only difference was the muzzle device, and it was several hundred bucks cheaper than the new version.

never bothered with the tier,

only bought one complete AR, a used Bushmaster CMP type, that was later redone to make a scope gun,


RRA,
Sendra
Eagle
Aero,
all worked fine,

Colt and FN uppers, a few GI A1's and some generic (forge marked only) flat tops,

latest is a WOA service rifle upper (20 inch) with the WOA scope, and it shoots way better than I do, using a wilson barrel,

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Oh, I misunderstood the original question. I read it as "favorite lower"? What a moron.

Oh, well, now don't be so hard on yourself. ;-)

Thanks P220 Smudge and lyman

Often when I post questions, I do not put my input or feelings into the OP. I want to hear what folks have to say, not parrot what I say. The entire scope of the thread referenced here was to challenge the “tier” notion. I think that with a decent barrel and quality bolt carrier group, for the first 5,000 rounds or so, there’s little difference. Now that’s based on what I use a carbine for, let’s say out to 200 yards. When you get into the top tier guns, it will likely shoot about the same as a PSA will new.

PSA is the top performer in the bottom tier. Like them or not, they put an awful lot of rifles in gun owners hands. If a PSA was all I could afford, I’d buy one new or used, give it a quick once over, and go to work.

Mid tier is the Springfield Saint. 16 inch mid length FSB gun. I have one that is pushing 15k. Only issue I have seen is it eats gas rings at a quicker than normal pace.

Upper tier? Pick one. I like Geissele a lot.

I personally would rather see a dude buy a rifle he can afford, and train hard as to worry about spending extra on a rifle that will take 20k that he would never come close to shooting. The damn things are so easy to work on, if you need to replace most parts you can do it at the user level.

The day of Blackthorne/Vulcan/Hesse crappy ARs is long over. It's very hard to eff up AR manufacturing. I've owned all kinds of tier ARs (RRA, Radical, CMMG, Stag, Sabre Defence, VLTOR, Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, KAC, Noveske, LMT, POF, SIG, PSA, Midwest Industries). Still have some of them, but these days, I would be perfectly happy with a PSA Sabre line AR, either with the 4150CMV barrel or the FN M249-spec barrel.

The lower end PSA ARs might be "top performer in the bottom tier", but I wouldn't call their Sabre ARs bottom tier. For example, I wouldn't call >> this one << bottom tier. PSA has come a long way.

All my lower are colt, aero or BCM
Uppers are colt, LMT, and several OG bushmaster from the 90s and BCM.

I’m not fancy. I like fixed carry handles, or GI carry handle son flag tops and standard front sights. I can live with magpul foreends or old school clamshell or MLOK rail. I only have one rifle with optics. I can shoot decently to 100 with irons. Where I live a shot much longer than that would be hard to find. Except on a straight stretch of highway or a farmers cotton field. Maybe in 2024 I’ll venture into LPVO or prism sights.

I have a PSA rifle that I'd trust my life to, and actually used it as a patrol rifle for a few years before they issued us dept. guns. I bought it back in 2011, and have bought or built a few others with their components since, and feel like that particular gun is a cut above the other stuff I've seen from them (although the newer stuff has been mostly acceptable). I would definitely take it over the Rock River, BCI defense, or DPMS rifles that some of our other local agencies have issued, as I've seen quite a few problems with those guns while my PSA has been flawless.

For mid-tier, I like the Sig M400. That's what they issued us and I've got zero complaints. They're nice guns with good attention to detail and offer a few nice features over a basic mil-spec rifle.

I have little experience with the high-end stuff. The LWRC I played with was darn nice, but I don't have much to compare it to. It didn't do anything noticeably better or worse than my M400 in the class we were at.

Thanks all for continued responses. ARs are not new to me, but I don't have the experience with them that I have with other platforms. I'm getting good information and things to look at.

I wrote a response about 3 times and deleted it. It sounds more like bragging than a helpful comment.

So I want to say this.

Consider buying a striped PSA lower and a parts kit. Assemble it yourself. There are tons of videos to follow and once you've done that you'll better be able to answer your question.

It's mostly a matter of fit and finish. If you know how to build one, you'll know how to tune one and at that point, the important part is the quality of parts for reliability. The name brands are more proven for reliability but I'm not saying the more budget friendly ones are unreliable.

I have more AR's than fingers and toes, some bought some I assembled, and the ones I put together are the ones I train with and trust more because I have time spent testing them and set them up exactly how I want them down to gas and buffer tubes.

^^^^^^Sounds like a good approach, and I certainly understand the idea of knowing your guns that well. It's usually a matter of time available, and how much of it one has to play around with things, experiment, and do trial and error. Thanks for the thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
As far as I'm concerned, a plain Jane lower, manufactured to specs, does the job just fine. Everything else is fluff. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't like fluff.

I concur. I have some mid-level/tier guns, if you want to call them that and enjoy them for what they are. Of course having quality internals,especially springs I have found, makes or breaks the gun.