quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
I have a warm spot in my heart for the FAL, and I feel like AK guys should get comfortable there.

Been shooting and training with AK's since the $150 -$200 Norincos and Poly Techs in the 80's. I'm way too old to change now. MOA is as familiar as breathing.

I used to want one but it diminished because I don't favor the 7.62x39 round all that much.
I do have a SKS in that caliber.
That being said I have never shot an AK ~ guess I have to add that to my bucket list, eh?

I have a few, but I am desiring a stamped Polish 7.62, or two. One to outfit with East German Bakelite furniture for fun, and one to put a dot, light, and laser on. I have actually been considering 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 as my go-to once I move back to America.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I used to want one but it diminished because I don't favor the 7.62x39 round all that much.
I do have a SKS in that caliber.
That being said I have never shot an AK ~ guess I have to add that to my bucket list, eh?

I was in the same boat, then I heard of 5.56 AK! I was sold.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David W,

I have three Norincos , 2 still in Cosmoline I bought in 1988 and one of the PSA short barreled setups (pistol or SBR, to be determined by ATF ).

Nice to see the adaptability options improve over the years.

Ahem, I don’t see any Swiss AKs in there. And we are on Sigforum, you know.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Ahem, I don’t see any Swiss AKs in there. And we are on Sigforum, you know.

... Because they don't exist.

Unless you're talking about the Sig 556R, which isn't Swiss, and doesn't share anything with the AK other than magazines, and perhaps the general principles behind the long stroke piston with rotating bolt operating system, if we're being generous. (Though that's enough to make it just as much of an "AK" as the Vz.58 is, I suppose. )

Otherwise, the only "Swiss AK" is the prototype AK44, and the acronym in the model name is the only AK thing about that rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Ahem, I don’t see any Swiss AKs in there. And we are on Sigforum, you know.

I suppose a 500 or even a 551-A1 would be the closest the Swiss have to an AK. Hey...if you have a spare 551 laying around, send it on over. I'll take a picture and include it. I may have to put a few rounds through it though.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

... Because they don't exist.

Unless you're talking about the Sig 556R, which isn't Swiss, and doesn't share anything with the AK other than magazines, and perhaps the general principles behind the long stroke piston with rotating bolt operating system, if we're being generous. (Though that's enough to make it just as much of an "AK" as the Vz.58 is, I suppose. )

Otherwise, the only "Swiss AK" is the prototype AK44, and the acronym in the model name is the only AK thing about that rifle.

The 550 series is 100% an AK variant. In the same way that the Valmet and Galil are too. Compare a Swiss 55x bolt and trunion to those of an AK. They are the same design. Take a 552 bolt group and compare side by side to an AK.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JoshNC,

I’ve still got a Valmet tube-folder, Hungarian AMD-65 built from a kit (my first build and it’s ugly), post-ban Hungarian SA85M and a Zastava M80 & M92 both SBR’s … I used to shoot them fairly regularly but not so much in the last 4-5 years. I can’t leave off my Swiss AK’s of which are several in different configurations ranging from a 550 to the 553.

To see some really strange AK fascination check out some pages on Facebook where the WASAR gets high marks and a cult like following. Zastava’s are ranked lower than Century’s and depending on the day Arsenal AK could be gold or crap.

Have a Norinco underfolder I decked out with a bakelite furniture set years ago. My nicest AK variant, long gone, was a fixed stock Valmet in 5.56. Wish I had held onto that one.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

... Because they don't exist.

Unless you're talking about the Sig 556R, which isn't Swiss, and doesn't share anything with the AK other than magazines, and perhaps the general principles behind the long stroke piston with rotating bolt operating system, if we're being generous. (Though that's enough to make it just as much of an "AK" as the Vz.58 is, I suppose. )

Otherwise, the only "Swiss AK" is the prototype AK44, and the acronym in the model name is the only AK thing about that rifle.

The 550 series is 100% an AK variant. In the same way that the Valmet and Galil are too. Compare a Swiss 55x bolt and trunion to those of an AK. They are the same design. Take a 552 bolt group and compare side by side to an AK.

The VZ-58 isn't an AK. I gave a wink. The 550 isn't an AK. Let's not be stupid. It's not a "variant." There is history and lineage, borrowing and evolution, to firearm design.

You forgot a wink.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

... Because they don't exist.

Unless you're talking about the Sig 556R, which isn't Swiss, and doesn't share anything with the AK other than magazines, and perhaps the general principles behind the long stroke piston with rotating bolt operating system, if we're being generous. (Though that's enough to make it just as much of an "AK" as the Vz.58 is, I suppose. )

Otherwise, the only "Swiss AK" is the prototype AK44, and the acronym in the model name is the only AK thing about that rifle.

The 550 series is 100% an AK variant. In the same way that the Valmet and Galil are too. Compare a Swiss 55x bolt and trunion to those of an AK. They are the same design. Take a 552 bolt group and compare side by side to an AK.

The VZ-58 isn't an AK. I gave a wink. The 550 isn't an AK. Let's not be stupid. It's not a "variant." There is history and lineage, borrowing and evolution, to firearm design.

You forgot a wink.

The VZ58 is definitely not an AK.

As for a 552 not being an AK variant…

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
I've never personally liked the AK that much but I will probably still buy one someday just because they are such an iconic gun.

They do indeed have a cool factor.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
I'll admit I'm not big into AKs. I'll start with stocks to short & usually terrible triggers.

There are a surprising (to me) number of "stipped" or "furnitureless" versions of the AK out there. I've seen WBAP, Cugir, Zastava and Palmetto State Armory for what PSA is worth. The little so-and-sos may grow on you.

I wish I could offer you some suggestions for triggers, but I just kinda got used to the ones that came on the rifles. To me its almost like shooting a bow or an old-fashioned single-action revolver. You (and I) seem to have the same attitude towards ComBloc buttstocks that most Americans do - there's a pretty broad range of aftermarket options out there. The less AR-like they are, though, the more expensive they tend to be.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
So much to learn with all the countries that made their own variation etc.

It's a fun rabbit hole to at least start going down in to, but be aware that they were made in enough places over enough time - and, for that matter, in enough countries where hand fitting and "good enough" were very much norms - that not all magazines and other parts are universally interchangeable. I wound up generally sticking with Zastava for largely that reason, but it's certainly not a major enough problem to not look into any other AKs that interest you.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
then I heard of the 5.56 AK!

That actually seems like the fastest growing segment of the AK world these days thanks (I think) to the shutting down of Russian ammunition imports.

The 5.56s (like the 5.45s) do seem to consistently be as accurate as garden-variety 5.56 ARs. They really do seem to be far ahead of a lot of older 7.62x39 AKs in that regard.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
The VZ58 is definitely not an AK.
As for a 552 not being an AK variant…

Can you swap parts between the two? No? OK, it's not a variant. Again, across the history of all kinds of firearms, you can find loads of "borrowing."

Somewhere along the way, someone has confused what a variant is, with something derived or evolved from another design.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:

Can you swap parts between the two? No? OK, it's not a variant. Again, across the history of all kinds of firearms, you can find loads of "borrowing."

Somewhere along the way, someone has confused what a variant is, with something derived or evolved from another design.

Can you swap all parts from an AKSU 74 into an AKM? Some parts fit. So how many parts have to be cross compatible to be an actual AK? How about a Galil, Valmet 71/76, Sako Rk95?

Variant and derivative are both technically correct in this instance. The point I’m making is the Swiss 55x is a variation of and derived from the AK.

variant
/vâr′ē-ənt, văr′-/

adjective
Differing from others of the same kind or from a standard.
"a variant form of the disease; a book in variant editions."
Having or exhibiting variation; varying.
"a procedure producing variant results."
Varying in form, character, or the like; variable; different; diverse

—————————————————

derivative
/dĭ-rĭv′ə-tĭv/

adjective
Resulting from or employing derivation.
"a derivative word; a derivative process."
Copied or adapted from others.
"a highly derivative prose style."
noun
Something derived.


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