Ok, so the local cabelas has a very nice Ruger African in 6.5 Swede in their gun library and a surplus(?) bubba'ed Mauser in 8MM.

This question is not about the rifles as each has points in their favor.

Between 8mm and 6.5x55 which would you choose and why?

6.5x55, new bullet selections.

6.5x55 is my favorite cartridge for deer and most other large game, and the Ruger African rifle is a thing of beauty, no contest get the 6.5x55 African!

The 6.5x55 is my greatest discovery. Very little recoil and devastating performance on deer. For the last 5 years, it’s all I’ve used for hunting. Absolutely perfect for North American game. Bullet selection is very good too

No contest...

6.5 Swede is still widely used by hunters today, and is a fantastic round.

Whereas 8mm Mauser is nearly kaput.

My experience is i had a 8mm Mauser 98 for a about 3 years as a Deer rifle in my younger days. I hated just about everything about it and do not miss it at all. I own 3 rifles in 6.5 Swede they are wonderful Deer rifles.

6.5x55 All day long.

I have always assumed that 8mm only really caught on because while “small” caliber (compared to the previous prevalence of 10-12mm black powder calibers, it still wasn’t “too small” for the decision makers of the late 19th century.

Just in the case of Mauser’s cartridges, look at what else they had available around the 1900s: 7X57mm, an amazing cartridge.
Maybe even more impressive, how about 7.65x53mm? They practically invented 7.62 NATO in 1889!
I would argue that either of those rounds (especially 7.65X53 with the ability to fit into. A shorter action) are better than 7.92X57.

But anyway... sorry for the drift. I love my 6.5 Swedes! Awesome round any way you look at it!

Bill R

We have two rifles in 6.5 Swede, one older milsurp then a modern CZ. The Swede(with modern loading) was the Creedmoor before the creed was developed.

I’ll jump on the Swede bandwagon.

Wow....I figured the Swede would win but it's 100% so far.

the Mauser is really cheap, maybe I will grab it for a future build. Not totally sure it's a bubba rifle since the barrel is 22" with proper non-military sights. 9.3x62 is an easy conversion on the 8mm.

The Ruger is pretty....I love the bluing and the wood.....

And 6.5x55 ammo is plentiful

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Wow....I figured the Swede would win but it's 100% so far.

the Mauser is really cheap, maybe I will grab it for a future build. Not totally sure it's a bubba rifle since the barrel is 22" with proper non-military sights. 9.3x62 is an easy conversion on the 8mm.

The Ruger is pretty....I love the bluing and the wood.....

And 6.5x55 ammo is plentiful

sounds like the correct answer is both

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Not totally sure it's a bubba rifle since the barrel is 22" with proper non-military sights.

Got a photo, or a link? What are the markings on the receiver?

There were a number of different factory commercial sporting Mausers in 8mm produced during the interwar period, and again after WW2. So it could be vintage but factory, and not a "Bubba" job of a military Mauser.

If you have an affinity for stout recoil, get the 8mm. Otherwise, get the Swede.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Not totally sure it's a bubba rifle since the barrel is 22" with proper non-military sights.

Got a photo, or a link? What are the markings on the receiver?

There were a number of different factory commercial sporting Mausers in 8mm produced during the interwar period, and again after WW2. So it could be vintage but factory, and not a "Bubba" job of a military Mauser.

I will see if I an grab one....they're not German but M48s....they had several of them and are down to 2.

If they looked like any of the above ones there would have been no debate, I love commercial Mausers

They are for different hunts. I suspect you already know that, as well as which one really suits what you typically shoot.

For the 8x57mm, I can attest to my hunting partner putting literal tons of meat in the freezer with one over the years. Often he didn't know which of two (or more) different loads he shot the critter with. Just had a random handful he went into the woods with.

I've never shot the 6.5 Swede, but I have shot the 8mm Mauser ... and I developed a great deal of respect for those fellows that had to shoot those in battle. They are brutal. Infact I don't remember the last time I shot a full power 8mm load, but I do remember the last time I shot it, was 20 rounds and the next several days I could barely move my arm. Keep in mind this was with a Surplus K98, steel butt plate and all.
I had 2 cases of 1280(?) rounds ... I pulled the bullets and they typically had over 55 grains of powder, I reloaded them down to someplace between 38 and 40 grains, I've still got 1 case and 1 rifle left, figured someone may need it for the next revolution, but it won't be me.

The point about the old 8mm Mauser having some kick is a good one. Same goes for the 1903, Mosin-Nagant, ...

When we think of WW1 or WW2 soldiers carrying and shooting these things, remember that WW1 or WW2 soldier probably weighed about 150 pounds.

We are bigger now but they probably were tougher on average.

Also, I don't think the philosophy when the rifles were developed was that an individual soldier was going to put down a large volume of fire. The volume of fire was going to come from that soldiers and hundreds to thousands of his friends firing in volleys. That was the expectation any way.

The experiences of WW2 and to a lesser extent WW1 changed military thinking. Army's moved to intermediate power cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by sw4566:
If you have an affinity for stout recoil, get the 8mm. Otherwise, get the Swede.

I had a bandolier of Turkish 8mm back in the early 2000s. Holy crap......

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmo952:
When we think of WW1 or WW2 soldiers carrying and shooting these things ....

That’s an interesting point that relates to something LTC Dave Grossman discussed in his book On Combat (could have been in On Killing, but I believe it was the former). He went on at length about studies that supposedly determined the percentages of US soldiers who fired their rifles in combat in World War II and Vietnam.

According to his information, a far higher percentage of soldiers fired their rifles in Vietnam than in WWII. His rather shaky (IMO) conclusion was that the difference was because marksmanship training for soldiers in the big war was on traditional bull’s-eye type targets whereas later more realistic silhouette targets were the norm. He believed that soldiers in the Vietnam era had been conditioned to overcome their reluctance to shoot human beings by their exposure to those green bottle shapes.

That conclusion has always seemed highly spurious to me, but I have wondered that if his information about percentages of shooters in the two wars was correct, what the actual reason was. I would be willing to bet that different common combat conditions might have had something to do with the varying percentages, but now that you mention the recoil issue, I wonder if that could have affected some soldiers’ willingness to shoot their rifles when it wasn’t an immediate matter of life or death.

Thanks for that thought.
(I’m not, BTW, necessarily wedded to that idea, but books I’ve been reading recently have mentioned how rushed training got for US soldiers during WWII. It was to the point that reportedly some were sent to the European theater without having even fired their rifles before they got there.)

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
<snip>
I had a bandolier of Turkish 8mm back in the early 2000s. Holy crap......

Sounds like what I’ve still got a case of, cloth bandolier with 8-10 pockets closed with a small steel button, each pocket contained two Stripper clips with 5rnds each ... now I’m going to have to dig one out because I don’t remember what it said on the button...

Yes, holy crap! That is the most miserable round I’ve ever shot, but at the time you could get a Turkish Mauser for $35 (but you had to buy 5) and the 1200 round case of ammo was $59.95 ... so including shipping you could get a battle rifle & case of ammo for just over than $100 ... I keep 2 rifles so after selling the other 3 rifles I actually less than that In them.
Ahhh, the good old days!

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
<snip>
I had a bandolier of Turkish 8mm back in the early 2000s. Holy crap......

Sounds like what I’ve still got a case of, cloth bandolier with 8-10 pockets closed with a small steel button, each pocket contained two Stripper clips with 5rnds each ... now I’m going to have to dig one out because I don’t remember what it said on the button...

Yes, holy crap! That is the most miserable round I’ve ever shot, but at the time you could get a Turkish Mauser for $35 (but you had to buy 5) and the 1200 round case of ammo was $59.95 ... so including shipping you could get a battle rifle & case of ammo for just over than $100 ... I keep 2 rifles so after selling the other 3 rifles I actually less than that In them.
Ahhh, the good old days!

That Turkish stuff has some snap but... if you want some 8mm love shoot some of the Austrian Nazi marked 8x56R in a M95 straight pull carbine. If you have one remove your partial because it is probably coming out.