UPDATE: It was a successful outing. Only three boys qualified (including my son) out of nine today but they all had a good time. We had an eclectic selection of shotguns. Brownings were the most common with a classic A5, Citori, B-80 and BPS shotguns making an appearance. That makes sense as this is John Moses Browning’s home state. Thanks to everyone for your advice.


Our troop’s boys will be working on the shotgun merit badge and I’ve voluntered to help. They will be shooting over a couple of mechanical throwers like this: https://www.cabelas.com/produc.../706695.uts?slotId=1. What would you all suggest as the best choke for novice shooters to use? For reference, they will have access to 20 gauage and 12 gauge shotguns. Also, would you suggest 8 shot or a little bigger shot size?

Thanks. I’m used to bird hunting and this not something I’ve ever really done.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,

#8 will be fine, I’d use Improved cylinder choke. Shotgun fit will be more important than choke or shot size. A youth midel shotgun will be a big help for the snaller statured boys.

either Improved or Modified would be fine. When shooting over a thrower like that one which is basically next to the shooter or a few feet in front of the shooter the distance that the clay target is shot in the air is fairly close (compared to "Trap" which the thrower starts 16yards in front of the shooters).
Some new shooters let the clay target fly away before they get the barrel aligned, so in that case Mod may work better, but if you get the new shooters to understand the concept of the shot pattern vs distance and that they should get on the target quickly and shoot it Imp should be perfect.
#7.5's or #8's are fine.

Improve Cylinder or modified.
#8 shot target loads - 1 1/8 oz in 12, 7/8 in 20
The light target variety - 1100 fps or so, not the handicap or heavy load 1200 or mor fps type.

Little mechanical throwers like that work great, but in my experience, they don't throw clays very fast, so the shots are relatively close.

The shots are easy, so for an experienced shooter, a modified choke isn't really a handicap and will absolutely dust the clays - but for inexperienced shooters, I'd definitely recommend improved, possibly even skeet or cylinder depending on how tight you set the spring on the thrower (less tight = slower clays = closer shots = wider choke).

Dusting a clay is very satisfying but you only have to knock one piece off for it to count.

IC with #9’s

A more open choke is perfect (e.g., Skeet) Of course but IC is best amongst the common chokes found on today’s guns.

8’s will work but you want as thick of a pattern as possible. 9’s are best. The clay shooting sports are why they make them.

Winchester AA’s are the readily available gold standard target load shotshell for the appropriate gauge.

I wouldn’t put a new shooter behind a 12 though. Especially if it was a single shot or a pump.

A 20 gauge IC shooting Winchester AA 9’s would be a good setup.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: x0225095,

Maladat and x0225085 said it best

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I prefer #8 shot but this late in the year you may find that you don't have a full selection and may have to go with what you can find. Note, Clay Shooting ranges insist on shot sizes between #7 1/2 to #9 and the reason for this is smaller than #9 may not break a clay that is well hit at longer ranges and any shot larger that #7 1/2 can carry too far to be considered "safe".

If it's a shorter range throw I would Suggest Skeet or Cylinder, because at about 20 yards you'll find you are shooting a pattern of about 16-20 inches. BTW, in Trap the Trap house is either 16 or 25 yards from the firing line, so the point of contact between shot and bird is typical 30 to 40 yards out from the 16 yard line. At that distance a Full Choke is a typical choice.

Note, any clay thrower can be dangerous to someone unfamiliar with how hard that clay is leaving the thrower. Get in the way of the arm and a compound fracture of the Femur can be the result for an adult, for a curious child it can be a Fatal Head Injury because they tend to want to look at things like this closely. So, with youths it would be a good idea to have a "Second" present specifically instructed to provide a LOUD STOP command in the event of any curious youngster trying to get a closer look at the thrower. If that STOP command is ever issued DROP the control immediately and plan on forcefully removing that child from the vicinity.

You will also want to brief everyone involved on the importance of Muzzle Control. Specifically instruct them that if they have a question they must keep the barrel pointed downrange at all times. If they feel that they need to show you something about the shotgun or need help instruct them to open the action an place the gun on the ground with the barrel pointing downrange before turning around. In the event of a jam where they don't have the strength to open the action instruct them to simply lay it on the ground with the barrel pointing downrange. I also advise that you single load the shotgun for each and every shot. Because it's pretty predictable for an excited youth with his first Hit to want to turn around and say "did you see that". Remember a loss in muzzle control with a fired hull in the chamber or on the ground is relatively harmless but that same loss with a live round in the chamber is truly terrifying.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Note, any clay thrower can be dangerous to someone unfamiliar with how hard that clay is leaving the thrower. Get in the way of the arm and a compound fracture of the Femur can be the result for an adult, for a curious child it can be a Fatal Head Injury because they tend to want to look at things like this closely. So, with youths it would be a good idea to have a "Second" present specifically instructed to provide a LOUD STOP command in the event of any curious youngster trying to get a closer look at the thrower. If that STOP command is ever issued DROP the control immediately and plan on forcefully removing that child from the vicinity.

You will also want to brief everyone involved on the importance of Muzzle Control. Specifically instruct them that if they have a question they must keep the barrel pointed downrange at all times. If they feel that they need to show you something about the shotgun or need help instruct them to open the action an place the gun on the ground with the barrel pointing downrange before turning around. In the event of a jam where they don't have the strength to open the action instruct them to simply lay it on the ground with the barrel pointing downrange. I also advise that you single load the shotgun for each and every shot. Because it's pretty predictable for an excited youth with his first Hit to want to turn around and say "did you see that". Remember a loss in muzzle control with a fired hull in the chamber or on the ground is relatively harmless but that same loss with a live round in the chamber is truly terrifying.

I appreciate your technical advice but especially the safety advice. I really like the one shell per shot suggestion as some of these kids have zero experience with weapons. Last week, we had a special scout meeting with the merit badge instructor on safety but the extra precautions make sense.

I agree with the others that Improved Cylinder would be my pick. Even a Skeet choke if you have access to one. Number 8 shot is plenty for clay pigeons.

I use a 28" full choke Ithaca & #7 or 7.5 shot as that is what I have. No interchangeable chokes. Works well enough, but not ideal.

Taking a bunch of new scouts to a shoot, all at once, is as exciting as finding out your seat bar won't latch as the roller coaster is clackity-clacking up the hill.

Speaking from personal experience doing the shotgun merit badge so long ago, if any of those kids have braces on, please tell them to coat them in wax on whichever side of their face they rest on the stock. Spitting out the inside of your cheek is no fun.

I have no experience with your clay thrower, but it seems it will do the trick. It may seem counter intuitive, but it's generally harder to hit a clay that's thrown with a low-tension spring. The clay goes out slower, but it drops much faster. Sometimes dropping like a rock. Most shooters can hit even fairly distant clays it the clay's trajectory is slightly rising or relatively level.

FWIW, I have about 25k rounds of 12 gauge under my belt, and another 5k or so in 20, 28, and 410.

Young shooters shouldn't be pounded with high recoiling loads. For 12 gauge, one ounce of shot at a muzzle velocity of less than 1200 fps is what I used in virtually all types of competition. For targets further than 50-60 yards, I would use 1145 fps 1-1/8" shells. For smaller shooters, low recoiling 12 gauge will be fine. I think it's something like 7/8 ounce at 1100 fps.

For 20 gauge, use 7/8 ounce loads at 1200 fps or lower.

Shot size won't matter much for your application of pretty close targets. 9, 8, or 7.5 all will break clays. Although I generally shoot every target at every distance with #8, the other sizes work just as well.

Don't get too hung up on chokes. Different choke sizes change our patterns by inches, but we often miss targets by feet. If you can get your Scouts to shoot at the targets pretty quickly, a more open choke will get them a little better chance at a hit. Just guessing here, but SK, IC, or LM should all do the trick. But if a Scout comes to the game with an extra full turkey choke on his Dad's hunting shotgun, by all means let him shoot.

Don't get too hung up on shot shell brands. As I was moving up the ranks of sporting clays comps, I figured I needed Winchester AA or Remington STS to score well. Once I made master class, I found that I broke targets well out to 30-35 yards with even the cheapest POS promo shells, especially if I tightened the choke a bit. Mid grade shells often shoot just as well as the top lines, but the hulls are cheaper -- they are for shooters who don't reload. However, stay away from Winchester's super cheap promo 12 gauge loads, often sold at WallMart -- these things are jam-o-matics. They just don't extract well.

#7 or #8, I like modified choke.

When I use to shoot trap, I used IC and 8 shot. With the closer targets, IC with 8 or 9 shot should be fine.

Former A level trap shooter here.

I like an extra full choke with 1 ounce of 7.5s, but that's just me. Everything Fritz said is spot on for your youngsters. Don't sweat the brand of shell or the gun setup too much, just make sure all the boys are comfortable and safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Former A level trap shooter here.

I like an extra full choke with 1 ounce of 7.5s, but that's just me. Everything Fritz said is spot on for your youngsters. Don't sweat the brand of shell or the gun setup too much, just make sure all the boys are comfortable and safe.

Yeah, Extra Full choke for twenty to twenty-five yard shots......That’s just you.

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
Former A level trap shooter here.

I like an extra full choke with 1 ounce of 7.5s, but that's just me. Everything Fritz said is spot on for your youngsters. Don't sweat the brand of shell or the gun setup too much, just make sure all the boys are comfortable and safe.

With the operator standing right next to the manually-operated mechanical thrower, I don't think anyone will be shooting from 20 yards behind the thrower.