quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Have a good source? Couldn't find much Speer in stock at the places I was checking, nor the Hornady Tap.

Nope. I stocked up ~10 years ago.

If you can't find Gold Dots, also keep an eye out for Federal Fusion. Same bonded soft point bullet, just marketed at hunters. (Federal and Speer are sister companies.)

That's a good tip, on the Fusion; that stuff is available in my area. OP, a lot of the differences between things like Fusion and Gold Dots, and Frontier and TAP, are aspects like low flash powders and whatnot. What makes the "tactical" ammo unique and expensive may not matter so much in your specific application. Don't get me wrong, I'll take stuff designed to have minimal flash if I can, but it's likely not gonna be a deal breaker in a HD context.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Have a good source? Couldn't find much Speer in stock at the places I was checking, nor the Hornady Tap.

Nope. I stocked up ~10 years ago.

If you can't find Gold Dots, also keep an eye out for Federal Fusion. Same bonded soft point bullet, just marketed at hunters. (Federal and Speer are sister companies.)

Thanks, started with 100ct of the TBBC from the prior page, but will look for those too.
Current load is a whitetail marketed soft point, figured it'd be better than a fmj, if needed.

Of course, if there's a 'bump' in the night, the 357Sig is handy, the safe with the AR is across the house :-/

I only have a few hundred rounds. I'd like some more.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
If you can't find Gold Dots, also keep an eye out for Federal Fusion. Same bonded soft point bullet, just marketed at hunters. (Federal and Speer are sister companies.)

Federal Fusion is what my friend uses on hogs. He says it's absolutely devastating on them. 5.56 to boot, not even bigger rifle rounds.

I was using Hornady TAP but we're switching to Gold Dot 75gr

I use PSA 77gr OTM for my 11.5” AR as I believe that would be effective at sd/hd ranges and a little longer.
I use M193 for my 20” M16A1 upper for those times I want that vintage feel.
The dedicated HD rounds that are bonded seem to be a fantastic option but I’ve never gone that route (yet, but all of you are enablers) as HD ranges for me at this time are within 25 yds.

Guys,

I'm primarily a .308 shooter, but when I shoot my AR's it's a 69 gr SMK or 77 gr. SMK. Primarily the MK 262. Shoots well out of short or long barrels. My GA Precision M40 series rifle dotes on the MK 262, but then it likes EVERYTHING I stuff in it.

Wes

Is the 62gr Gold Dot essentially the same as the 64gr version? Or is it a newer bullet design? Barrier performance and terminal ballistics? I mean, there must have been a good reason why they changed it.

I bought several hundred rounds of the 64gr before it disappeared; I'd like to augment that with some 62gr if it's an equivalent load.

I’m not picky. I’ve used Federal T1, Hornady 62 grain barrier, and Winchester bonded 62 grain.

Pretty much as long as the round is bonded I wouldn’t care.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
Is the 62gr Gold Dot essentially the same as the 64gr version?

I have both types, but have never conducted any side by side comparisons myself. However, some Internet searches turned up these results which may be correct:

Ballistic coefficients
62 grain bullet: 0.25 (per Speer)
64 grain bullet: 0.267 (Internet poster)

Velocities from 16 inch barrel (Internet poster)
24445SP (62 grain load): 2551 fps
24448 (64 grain load): 2600 fps
I don’t know how valid those figures are because I couldn’t find how many rounds of each were fired, and the extreme spreads listed would have resulted in velocity overlaps between the two loads (which is often true when comparing different, but similar ammunition types).
Further searches might turn up other results, but that’s what I found.

Even though the recorded velocity of the 64 grain load and its BC were both higher than that of the 62 grain load, for any practical purpose I would have I consider them to be essentially equivalent. The differences would matter if I were attempting to ding a steel plate at 1000 yards, but that’s not what I would waste any of my stockpiles on.

As for why Speer changed the load, my first thought was that 62 grains matches the nominal weight of the M855 “green tip” 5.56mm NATO bullet, and perhaps there was some consumer pressure from the ignorant for the two to be the same. But that’s pure speculation.

FWIW, when I was selecting a 223 Remington load for a situation in which I thought it might be necessary to defeat a windshield barrier, I settled on the 75 grain Gold Dot load. But in my personal experimenting, the 64 grain bullet also performed very well for that purpose.

https://www.ar15.com/media/med..._Copy__2_-620498.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR...=1&anc=bottom#bottom

^^^^^^^^
Thanks, Sigfreund!

quote:

Originally posted by Cntrl23:
Bereli has free shipping on all items, and they’ve got a good variety of quantity options for most ammo. Never had a problem with any orders.

They’ve got a bonded option with Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, “FEDERAL PREMIUM LAW ENFORCEMENT TACTICAL AMMUNITION 223 REMINGTON 62 GRAIN BONDED SOFT POINT *Government Contact Overrun* LE223T3 without nickel coating on brass.” Sold as XF223SP here.

They’ve also got the above mentioned Federal Premium Tactical Tru 55gr, but with Sierra Gameking hollow points here.

How's bereli's shipping times?
I check my order & it shows awaiting pmt, check the bank & they charged it when I ordered.

Edit: Got an email from them this morning, status is now waiting fulfilment

Edit 2: And now shipped!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P250UA5,

Okay, to add to the confusion, I looked at my own records, and this is what I found about the 64 grain Gold Dot load fired from a 16 inch barrel (Colt LE6920) in 2008 and later in 2014. I recorded the lot number for only one session, so I don’t know if they were the same. In both sessions the start screen of the chronograph, an Oehler 35P, was about 10 feet from the muzzle.

2008: 30 rounds, average 2766 fps.
2014: 10 rounds, average 2769 fps.

My velocity readings were obviously much higher than the Internet values I posted above. That could be due to differences in lots or, less likely I admit, differences in the chronographs. At the time the Oehler was generally considered to be the top of consumer grade units, whereas the Chrony was/is a significantly lower cost instrument with much closer screen spacing. I doubt that would account for >160 fps difference, but ….*

FWIW, Speer’s current claimed muzzle velocity for the 62 grain load is 3000 fps, but that’s from a (highly unrealistic, IMO) 24 inch barrel.

And although I no longer know where I got the G1 ballistic coefficient value for the 64 grain bullet, I recorded it as 0.310.

Finally, here is a discussion that has some more comparison information. It’s necessary to scroll to the relevant parts, but one statement that stands out is,
“The terminal ballistic properties of the 62 grain Gold Dot are the same as the 64 grain Gold Dot.”

https://www.snipershide.com/sh...ds-for-ar15.7053580/

* Added. In checking some reviews of Chrony chronographs against more expensive units like the LabRadar or MagnetoSpeed, they very often yield reasonably similar velocity readings—but not always. It may depend upon specific models, generations, etc., but I’ve seen some results that varied widely from what the other brands showed. A few results like that don’t prove that the figures posted by another tester were incorrect, but they do demonstrate that significant errors are possible. It’s therefore something to keep in mind when evaluating reports, and especially when they lack details about the testing protocols.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
* Added. In checking some reviews of Chrony chronographs against more expensive units like the LabRadar or MagnetoSpeed, they very often yield reasonably similar velocity readings—but not always. It may depend upon specific models, generations, etc., but I’ve seen some results that varied widely from what the other brands showed. A few results like that don’t prove that the figures posted by another tester were incorrect, but they do demonstrate that significant errors are possible. It’s therefore something to keep in mind when evaluating reports, and especially when they lack details about the testing protocols.

I can believe that. I had a Chrony for a few years. Sometimes it seemed to behave "normally" (i.e., giving me numbers that made sense) but other times it would be all over the place. I quit trusting it and replaced it with a MagnetoSpeed, and have been a lot happier with that.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Speer Gold Dot bonded 62 grain soft points

Same here. Reminds me to buy some more as possible.

Just ordered 200 rounds of the Federal bonded from Bereli, thanks to my enablers.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Got a couple 40rd Pmags loaded with 75gr TAP.

75 gr Hornady TAP is what I have for HD, only 5 1/2 boxes left. The rest of my 5.56 stash is cases of XM193

quote:

Originally posted by Cntrl23:
I picked up a Federal 5.56 64gr Boat Tail TBBC option from Bereli, here’s a round recovered from jugs.

I won’t go into details in a public forum, but I can tell you first hand that this is a very effective projectile out of a 16 inch barrel. I have 3 magazines loaded with that round as I type this.

I also like Gold Dot.

IMI 77 Grain SMK MOD-1 Razorcore