M193 ball,,

or,

handloads with Sierra 69gr SMK's

depending on if I get to the M16 or AR-15 Match rifle first

quote:

Originally posted by copaup:

quote:

Originally posted by Cntrl23:
I picked up a Federal 5.56 64gr Boat Tail TBBC option from Bereli, here’s a round recovered from jugs.

I won’t go into details in a public forum, but I can tell you first hand that this is a very effective projectile out of a 16 inch barrel. I have 3 magazines loaded with that round as I type this.

I also like Gold Dot.

My order is out for delivery today.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
There was a really good thread on this a couple of years ago.

It was actually in 2016.

Since then, I've stayed mainly with Federal M193, because it has been (up until now) plentiful, relatively cheap, and actually quite effective.

My stockpile is mostly Federal M193 but I also have small quantities of:

Federal Fusion MSR .223 62 grain bonded

Federal T556TNB1 (Mk 318 SOST) 5.56 62 grain OTM

Federal M855 "Green Tip" 5.56 62 grain fmj

Federal ND55664 5.56 64 grain bonded

Winchester RA556B 5.56 64 grain bonded

Of the bonded stuff I have, the Federal Fusion MSR has been the easiest to get over a long period of time. This is very nice ammunition. Federal did not skimp. Match-grade hard primers. This would make for an excellent home defense round.

The Mk 318 seems to be impossible to get these days (and, supposedly, should be shot only in barrels with a twist rate of 1:7) Remarkably penetrative stuff, it seems.

The M855 I have is Lake City production. I'd say it should do a good job on automobile bodies and auto glass but wouldn't be a good choice for home defense.

The Federal ND55664 64 grain (supposedly a "contract overrun" or reclassified factory seconds ammunition.) The "ND" supposedly stands for "Non-Duty". Take that's for what it's worth but I have supreme confidence in this round. This is the stuff shown in the pretty pictures on page one of this thread. This is probably the best of the best 5.56 ammunition out there right now.

The Winchester RA556B is the FBI's current round for their short-barrelled AR15/M16. Interestingly, this round used to have a plain brass case. Beginning around 2018 or 2019, Winchester started loading it in nickel-plated cases. If it's good enough for the FBI...

I have Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Hornady TAP (62 & 75 g).

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The Federal ND55664 64 grain (supposedly a "contract overrun" or reclassified factory seconds ammunition.) The "ND" supposedly stands for "Non-Duty". Take that's for what it's worth but I have supreme confidence in this round. This is the stuff shown in the pretty pictures on page one of this thread. This is probably the best of the best 5.56 ammunition out there right now.

This is also available through Bereli here, the only place I have seen it. I didn’t include on page one due to the ND, however, parabellum’s detailed explanation matches everything I’ve learned about this round in my deep dive online, and first hand experience thus far.

I bought a 200 round can of this stuff and I couldn't find a difference between it and my Gold Dots between felt recoil, POI, and recovered projectiles from a water jug.And the best part.... I can actually find some in stock! lol
Also, thanks for the link to the Bereli site! That's a great deal on Federal bonded ammo.

IMI 77 Grain SMK MOD-1 Razorcore. I have enough of it to train with and it is accurate and reliable. My back up is M193 which also always goes bang.

FWIW, in my (admittedly limited) personal testing of M193 and M855 versus 64 grain Gold Dot, both of the former didn’t perform nearly as well through windshield glass. Both the M193 and M855 broke up, tumbled badly, and failed to penetrate very far into the test medium. The M193 did better on automotive sheet steel, but not significantly better, if at all, than the GDSP.

The M193 tumbled badly before hitting the witness paper in front of the test medium.




The M855 bullet also tumbled and broke apart.




The large hole directly below the red aiming point was made by the Gold Dot Soft Point bullet. It obviously suffered some deformation and probably some loss of material, but it perforated straight through the medium.

I see Berelli has 2 similar choices:

223-62gr bonded
https://www.bereli.com/federal...avad=74383_b378221dd

and a 5.56 64-gr bonded
https://www.bereli.com/federal...ded-soft-point-ammo/


I may go with the 223 so i can use in both my AR and my Savage 223 FP10-LEO

Any particular benefit one vs the other?
My AR is a Daniel Defense 16-in with 1:7 twist

The Savage is a 24-in barrel 1:9 twist

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
Any particular benefit one vs the other?

Based on ballistic theory, it’s better to have a faster rifling twist rate for longer (and usually heavier) bullets to ensure they are stabilized properly. But in the 223 Remington or 5.56mm cartridge, that can become important in practice only with bullets that are longer than the 62 or 64 grain soft points. With such bullets the difference between 1/7" and 1/9" is immaterial in my opinion based on my knowledge of the subject. Twist rates become important when shooting long, heavy match bullets at very long distances, but that is not what these loads are intended for.

With nonexpanding bullets such as those used in the M193 or M855 loads, then a slower twist rate can improve wounding effects because those bullets depend upon tumbling and sometimes breaking up after striking the living target to transfer maximum energy.
Slower twist rates = less stability = faster, more violent tumbling.

One thing I’ve seen in authoritative discussions about the subject is that when and how such bullets tumble is partially dependent upon how much they are yawing at the point of impact, and that’s a matter of chance. For people who want to rely on nonexpanding bullets for defensive purposes, it may be better to use heavier, longer bullets that tumble and break up more reliably. That is apparently why there has been a move in the US military to adopt that type.

Although the differences between the two loads you linked are very minor and probably have little, if any practical effect, if I had to choose, it would probably be the 62 grain load because of its slightly higher claimed energy. Soft point bullets like that transfer their wounding energy because of their expansion, not tumbling, and therefore I know of no benefit to their being less stable like nonexpanding bullets. On the other hand, a 64 grain bullet would probably have slightly better performance against barriers like heavy glass.

And finally, my personal opinion is that for civilian, non-law enforcement, defensive purposes, none of all that matters. I would avoid a very light, fast expanding bullet load designed for prairie dogs and other small varmints, but even then whatever we choose for the purpose will almost certainly change an aggressive criminal’s behavior. I study the subject and make my specific choices because firearms ballistics is one of the many scientific subjects that fascinate me and because I do have choices, but that doesn’t mean they’re ever likely to be important at this stage of my life and activities.

What is loaded into my HD AR is Hornady TAP 55 grain if I remember correctly. If I run out of that, I have some XM193 and Hornady 75 grain boat tails. At inside the house or within the property boundaries, it really won’t make much difference.

I’ve got some Black Hills 69gr OTM set up as HD rounds. If SHTF, my stockpile is filled with 62gr 855 green tip from Radway, Lake City, and Federal. All function well in my go to ARs.

Is there a 7.62x51mm/.308Win round that's a similar construction and performance as the 62/64gr bonded soft point .223/5.56 ammo that's been discussed here? Thanks.

Each box comes with a tiny jar of Vaseline:

Federal Fusion .308 165 grain

Speer Gold Dot:

https://www.speer.com/ammuniti...ection/19-24467.html

I have a fair amount of the 150 and 168 grain version that I purchased many years ago.
As I recall its precision from my Ruger M77 at the time was poor. This reminds me I should see how they perform in current possessions, but they are not match level bullets and shouldn't be expected to perform the same.

Speer Gold Dot

Oof. That's more expensive than I was hoping. Thanks.

Ammo Seek shows sources for the Gold Dot stuff at significantly lower prices than the factory sites.

But for anyone who hasn't priced other premium rifle ammunition recently ....