maybe the wrong section to post so i appologize , but i am wondering what rifle setup and scope the counter snipers were using during the Trump rally ? thx

A post by RogueJSK in the main Trump thread:
“Secret Service counter-sniper teams use rifles in .300 Win Mag, built using Remington 700 long actions in Accuracy International AX AICS chassis.”

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...260086905#5260086905

The scope is a Schmidt & Bender of some version. Here is a list of current ones with that finish, but I couldn’t see any that seemed to have exactly the same turrets as pictured in the above thread. That one may be an earlier generation or perhaps I’m just not finding it.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Schm...Vk&o=1&p=1&i=48&d=48

FWIW, I do recognize the Accuracy 1st level on the sniper’s scope.

Also FWIW, I believe it’s a good idea to ask questions like this away from a thread with a gazillion unrelated posts. It took me a few minutes of searching to find the photo in the Trump presidency thread and was successful only because I knew to search for “300 mag.”

Added: Upon further searching, it appears that the USSS sniper’s scope as pictured is this one, and is apparently a special order item from Schmidt & Bender, the 5-25x56 PM II/LP/MTC/LT. (The sniper has a short sunshade on his scope that is not pictured on this one.)





https://www.schmidtundbender.d...56-pm-iilpmtclt.html

Added, part deux: A cropped version of the picture referenced above:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
A post by RogueJSK in the main Trump thread:
“Secret Service counter-sniper teams use rifles in .300 Win Mag, built using Remington 700 long actions in Accuracy International AX AICS chassis.”

This agrees with what I've seen in a few places. Those chassis sure look like AX to me.

The pictures of the 2 guys on the roof seem to indicate that they had Nightforce ATACR scopes on their rifles. The turrets and magnification ring look like my NF scopes, and they seem to show the NF inspection sticker on the forward part of the scopes.

****
I see now that Mr. GunsNGear thinks the scopes are NF. Page 1039 on the main Trump thread.
Looks like Really Right Stuff tripods -- the bee's knees for PRS-type competition.

Now that I pay more attention to the best photo I’ve seen of the USSS snipers, I agree that the scopes were Nightforce. NF scopes have several distinctive features that can’t be seen in the photo due to poor resolution, but the goldish-colored circular panel in the center of the parallax adjustment knob (left side and facing us) is the best confirmation.





If I had to guess, it would be that the scopes are the ATACR 5-25x56mm, first focal plane models. There are others that look about the same, but the 5-25 would seem to be a good model. Alternatively they might be the 7-35x model as (possibly) indicated by a longer eyepiece section. I would not consider that to be ideal for LE sniping, but what do I know?





The photo I posted above is older and perhaps the Secret Service has given up on S&B scopes like I’ve noticed that other individuals and agencies have in recent years. They are still pretty commonly seen in international sniper competition videos, but seem to be pretty rare in the US. It would be interesting to know why. At one time I got the impression that their service support was poor.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The photo I posted above is older and perhaps the Secret Service has given up on S&B scopes like I’ve noticed that other individuals and agencies have in recent years. They are still pretty commonly seen in international sniper competition videos, but seem to be pretty rare in the US. It would be interesting to know why. At one time I got the impression that their service support was poor.

I don't own any S&B scopes, but have shot a few rifles with them. When I began shooting steel matches, I originally thought their PMII line was pretty much top of the heap. I still generally consider S&B PMII scopes in high regard, but I don't consider them flawless. S&B no longer owns the PRS-type equipment market.

I have buddies who likely would never consider a scope brand other than S&B. To the best of my knowledge, their scopes have been flawless. I've shot some of their rifles and I agree the setups have no weaknesses.

I have buddies who used S&B scopes in the past, but dropped them due to elevation turret tracking issues. One shooter experienced this with a new PMII, sent the scope back to S&B, and received a new replacement S&B with similar tracking problems. He sold the replacement S&B, invested in another brand, and hasn't looked back.

A few years ago, Frank Galli of the Snipers Hide site stated that he had a PMII scope with tracking issues. I don't recall what occurred after that, but Frank was forthright on the issue on some Hide posts. I suspect that soured a number of potential S&B users, especially coming from a site that caters directly to shooters who might be interested in S&B products.

The only S&B scope that I thought wasn't great was a PMII Short model. I initially thought it was a great scope, then a buddy said look through it more carefully. Sure enough, the scope was clear & bright in the center portion of the view. But it showed CA as I looked towards the edges, and the clarity fell off noticeably. I've also seen these issues with a short-length scope from another high-end optics manufacturer.

wow . thank you ,, will check the other theead

And, since I handled some of it during my brief stint there, their ammunition is Lapua match stuff loaded at Berger.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
And, since I handled some of it during my brief stint there, their ammunition is Lapua match stuff loaded at Berger.

Open tip bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
A post by RogueJSK in the main Trump thread:
“Secret Service counter-sniper teams use rifles in .300 Win Mag, built using Remington 700 long actions in Accuracy International AX AICS chassis.”

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...260086905#5260086905

[SNIP]

Added, part deux: A cropped version of the picture referenced above:

In case there is any question, the above pic is from back in 2020, taken in a park in Washington, DC during the 'Summer of Rioting'.

as near as I can tell from the photo we have. Its an AI chassis (unknown what's in it from the photo), an NF ATACR scope, a mars on top and a RRS tripod. If I wasn't a lazy person I could figure out which ATACR by the dimensions of other stuff we know, but I'm not yet that motivated yet.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

This looks like an ATACR 4-16x42mm F1, most likely mil-based. IIRC this is the only model with the ZeroHOLD elevation turret -- the other ATACR models have the ZeroStop turret. ZeroHOLD can be identified by:
- a shorter elevation turret
- the sides of the turret aren't parallel from top to bottom -- there is a small "hat" on the top that sticks out to the sides
- there is a locking button for the zero feature that sticks out from the turret "hat", and it is visible on the rear portion of the turret in the above photo

This is a decent scope, although not the best in the ATACR line. I find setting the ZeroStop mechanism is easier than with the ZeroHOLD. Glass is great, but I find the glass seems a little better on the ATACR models with 5-times zoom. Nevertheless, the 4-16x42 F1 is a very capable scope. I've had an MOA model on my most accurate competition AR15 for a few years -- SI Defense receivers with a 20" Krieger barrel. This rifle system has performed well in Competition Dynamics' team events in Wyoming and New Mexico, allowing me to obtain 1st or 2nd round hits on 12" plates in the wind at 600-650 yards, in multiple matches. This rifle system helped me set the record high score for the NRA Whittington Center carbine match, finishing with a solid string of hits on an IPSC-sized plate at 870 yards.

Last year, I replaced the 4-16x42mm F1 on this rifle with a ATACR 4-20x50mm F1, which is just an awesome scope. The 4-16x42mm ATACR will go to another AR15, replacing an older NF 3.5-15x NXS F1.

Good point about the “hat” on the elevation turret. I thought I noticed something that wasn’t quite right about the turret of the scope I posted above, but wasn’t sure.

What led me to believe, though, that they weren’t the 4-16× scopes in the picture of the deployed snipers was the configuration of the front of the scope bodies from the maintube to the objective lens section. I guess that may be called the “bell.”

That section is something that varies among ATACR Nightforce models. Some are short and abrupt and others are longer and more gradual. Also, the section of the USSS scopes behind the rings for magnification and locking the reticle focus seem longer than that of the 4-16 scope.

Circled is the section I’m referring to and as pictured in the 4-16×42mm F1 on the Nightforce site. That section doesn’t really look to me like the longer bell sections of the scopes in the snipers picture. I wonder if the USSS scopes were a special order item from Nightforce to incorporate the ZeroHOLD feature in a higher-powered model.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I wonder if the USSS scopes were a special order item from Nightforce to incorporate the ZeroHOLD feature in a higher-powered model.

Good point, good observation. The bell in the photo looks more like a 5-25x or 7-35x model, than a 4-16x model.

Anyway, I enjoy a bit of sleuthin’ in threads like these.

And thanks for the date and context of the picture of the sniper with the S&B scope on his rifle.

Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 1st Focal plane with the MRAD Reticle, with an Envision MARS laser rangefinders tossed on top.

Steiner 20x80 Binos

The CAT guys are using Knights Armament SR-16's with an 11 1/2 Barrel
Knights Armament suppressors
Aimpoint T-2's

Gen-5 G-19's

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 1st Focal plane with the MRAD Reticle*,

Can you tell us how you know that?

After I posted earlier that a 7-35× scope would usually be considered a bit much for law enforcement sniping in which engagements average less than 100 yards, and are all but unheard of at more than 200 yards (the last time I checked), it occurred to me that perhaps the Secret Service anticipates longer shots for their snipers. Anything you can comment on?

* I have two of that same model except with the conventional zero stop, not the ZeroHOLD.

Sigfruend and all,

I have three Night Force ATACR's in 4 x 16 F1, 5 x 25 F1, and 7 x 35 F1. All are beyond reproach. I'm also mounting a Kahles 5 x 25 on a Crusader 6.5 Creedmoor. It should be completed in October. I can hardly wait.

Of the three Night force scopes, I have grown VERY fond of the 4 x 16 F1 on my .308 "Rock". It's a very good scope for the .308.

Recently upgraded that, to the Night Force ATACR 5 x 25 F1 for longer range accuracy and capability.

Hold Hard,

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

Can you tell us how you know that?

After I posted earlier that a 7-35× scope would usually be considered a bit much for law enforcement sniping in which engagements average less than 100 yards, and are all but unheard of at more than 200 yards (the last time I checked), it occurred to me that perhaps the Secret Service anticipates longer shots for their snipers. Anything you can comment on?

* I have two of that same model except with the conventional zero stop, not the ZeroHOLD.

I used the "Phone a friend" option
(Who wasn't working that day)

From what they are saying, the scope doesn't provide that much of a field of view, that's for the spotter. The do train for longer stuff; 500+. Which, YES, is a lot longer than "normal" LE engagements from a sniper, but they are in a "Counter-sniper" role, which would basically be looking for a shooter which might be at a longer distance. Their other role is on top of the White House covering from the fence to the door, not a whole lot of yardage to cover, but focused on moving targets. (ie. a nut running to the front door)

Thanks much. Something interesting to put in my LE sniping file that I would not have expected for a variety of reasons.