I've moved some things out of the safe, and I'm leaning towards getting a PCC. I've been down the PCC road in the past. My first was a USC to UMP conversion that I loved but sold years ago. My next was a CZ Scorpion that I haven't missed at all. I'm looking at an SP5/SP5K. The H&R DOE is interesting as well. I'm comfortable with the AR platform and have everything necessary to work on it.

I know NOTHING about the function of HKs other than the basics. I shot a rental MP5 once. I know they will be quieter than the DOE. Everywhere I read, people mention locking pieces and roller gap. It looks like the full size is more forgiving with regard to ammo weight/suppressor use than the K. Size isn't a big factor, but I've always thought the K was cool since I was a kid. Primary use would be range fun with an Omega9K attached. Whatever I get will end up as an SBR.

Anything else I need to know or consider?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bryanZ06,

I have both a HK SP5 and SP5K-PDW, as well as a Zenith Z-5RS, all SBR’d. They are fun guns and a classic old school design. Generally, you don’t have to worry about swapping locking pieces with the full sized SP5. The 100 degree locking piece that comes with the gun is fine for suppressed or unsuppressed, subsonic or supersonic ammo. For the short receiver K guns, a different locking piece is generally recommended for shooting heavy subsonic ammo suppressed. Usually people go for a 80 degree locking piece, but I found that a 90 degree LP was better for reliability when shooting standard supersonic ammo unsuppressed. Also, going to the 90 degree LP has less of an impact on bolt gap, so less chance of needing to swap locking rollers to get the bolt gap in spec. The Omega 9K is a light and compact can that pairs well with the small 5K, but it’s not that great for sound in 2026. Personally, I’m probably going to swap mine over to a Huxwrk Flow 9K.

I'm a PCC addict. So that out of the way the main thing on the HK is to understand that the design is from 1966. So things that are built into every single modern PCC like for example a pic rail for an optic take on a bit of challange on the HK. The resulting sight situation has some tradeoffs. But this is about your priorities, no need for an optic you won't care. Also you should consider if you have any reason to pick something else for practical reasons (like for an example an AR type PCC for control familiarity, parts interchange etc.). The aftermarket for the gun is quite extensive.
Shooting the roller locked HK system makes it a really nice gun to shoot especially compared to the direct blowback guns.
I have have both the full size, the K and several clones all SBR's FWIW. I shoot mostly suppressed and the full size model is much better at that. Even with very low gas suppressors I consider the gas level a bit annoying on the K. Dwill104 has the drill on a K suppressed you want a locking block change, but working on these guns is very easy.
I honestly don't know anyone who is unhappy owning one so there is that. And its an HK.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

Dwill or anyone else who owns both, what are your thoughts on the Zenith or other clones compared to the HKs?

I know the HKs are HKs and that they set the bar, but I've also looked at the MKE AP5SD converted to a true SD by Hitec Arms. One of those with the BRT adapter/CAT Mob setup is tempting as well and basically even in price with the SP5.

The Zenith I have is an older one when they were importing MKE guns. It runs fine, but I don’t have any experience with their current guns, so I’ll have defer to others on that.

The only HK clones I have had is a PCS 51k and a fixed up G36k clone by Tom Boston. The 51k doesn’t like aluminum mags, but with steel mags I have never had an issue with the fire breather. I no longer have the converted SL8, but after TB’s fixes it ran 100%. My experience with clones has been largely positive, and it seems today’s manufacturers will mostly stand behind their products.

All of my other HK rifles and carbines have been factory HK. Never a hiccup with any of them, and they just feel smoother in every aspect over the clones.

Those Hitec SD conversions are very appealing. If you are after a true SD setup, they offer one of the most affordable options. If you have the time to keep up with maintenance and don’t mind reduced-velocity 9mm, the Hitecs would be a good consideration.

If you have a gun shop or range with both clones and factory HKs, it would be worth your time to check both out and see if you can feel the form and function differences.

Are you only considering an HK?

I have a CZ Scorpion and that thing puts the bullets wherever I want. Reading online there are other PCC's that shoot softer like the HK, but it's hard to imagine because my Scorpion shoots soft IMO. I mean it is a 9mm with three points of contact.

I also have the S&W Response which is not a bad rig either, but the Scorpion is better IMO.

I went with a PTR (made here in the USA) and I'm very pleased with the platform. Besides the fact that I purchased this as a pistol (later to be SBR'd) and saved about 50% over an actual HK, it has an integral picatinny rail that allows one to easily mount an optic without the expense of purchasing mount. The money that I saved over the HK, allowed me to SBR the firearm and purchase things like Magpul hardware, a Dead Air suppressor, Eotech optic, a folding stock, and a Timney trigger that really enhances the project!

quote:

Originally posted by r8rs4lf:
Reading online there are other PCC's that shoot softer like the HK, but it's hard to imagine because my Scorpion shoots soft IMO. I mean it is a 9mm with three points of contact.

Nothing against the scorpion, I owned one and it served me well, but she's a thumper for a 9mm PCC.
I quickly sold mine once I purchased the SP5.

quote:

Originally posted by r8rs4lf:
Are you only considering an HK?

I have a CZ Scorpion and that thing puts the bullets wherever I want. Reading online there are other PCC's that shoot softer like the HK, but it's hard to imagine because my Scorpion shoots soft IMO. I mean it is a 9mm with three points of contact.

I also have the S&W Response which is not a bad rig either, but the Scorpion is better IMO.

I had a Scorpion and never really cared for it. Lots of $$$ invested in it and it just never felt right. I sold it last year and was happy to see it go.

I think the only options I'm considering are an SP5 or an H&R DOE. B&T would have been in the mix, but with the import mess going on between B&T AG and B&T USA I'm going to stay away from them.

I went this way...

I went with the SP5K-PDW, also. After SBRing it and adding a collapsible stock and suppressor, it was really fun.

After adding the Rare Breed FRT, it was REALLY fun.

Quick update-

I went by a local shop yesterday that had an SP5 in stock according to their site. When I got there, that wasn't the case but they did have a clone (MAC) in both the full size and K on the wall. I looked at both just to get hands on with the platform as it has probably been 20 years since I shot the rental MP5. I left with a pretty solid feeling of it's not worth the $4k an SBR'd SP5 and mags would set me back.

At the moment, I'm hitting the pause button on the PCC. My Marlin 1894 might end up with a new can instead.

CMMG Banshees are great. Suppress well, and readily take regular AR-15 FRTs. If such things are on your list of desirable criteria.

I have a DOE and a Banshee.

The Banshee just works. Needs no tuning to get an FRT to run.

The DOE just oozes awesome, but is straight blowback. I had to put a Maxim roller delay in it to get it reliable with an FRT.

You can just buy a Banshee upper and stick it on any AR lower and buy CMMG endomags.

Also, a BulletBuddy loader makes loading Banshee mags a breeze.

Many folks will look at PCCs and bypass 9mm SBR ARs. I get it -- some models seem to have their issues. Wilson Combat isn't one of them. Yeah, it's straight blowback. But its recoil is pretty much non-existent with a can. Flawless reliability -- heavy or light bullets, standard or +P loads, HP or FMJ. Great ergonomics, as it's an AR15. Built to take whatever optics one desires.



And then there's the accuracy thing. The thing that Wilson Combat knows well. Some folks talk about how accurate their PCCs are. Sometimes proudly stating how they can produce a fist-sized hole in a paper target at 5 or 10 yards. Meh. Here's what an accurate 9mm PCC can do. 10 rounds of S&B 115 FMJ, 200 yards prone, high winds from the left -- holding just off plate at the 9 o'clock point, 2.5" vertical dispersion.



No futzing with triggers or gas systems to make it run. Uses Glock mags, no feeding issues. Not heavy at all, even with a 1-4x scope & mount.

Fortunately, we live in a time where PCC options are plentiful, and new ones are coming out all of the time. Prices ranging from dirt cheap to super expensive, different operating systems, etc. I remember the 80s when the choices were pretty much limited to the HK94, UZI, and the TEC9.