No, but I've searched and asked many times for proof from other platform owners and have come up empty. I even threw some challenges out to the guys over on sniper's hide.
https://www.snipershide.com/sh...23134/#post-11947078

Lots of claims, but I can never find proof. But maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

Tony.

Ah, yes! I remember this! I had meant to keep up with that. Turns-out there's nothing to keep up with. M14 = most accurate piston semi-auto 7.62x51 until proven otherwise.

Also, FWIW, if contemporary pragmatism (or extreme M14 accuracy) is not a consideration, my vote is FAL. FALs are cool, and pretty svelte (yes, I've owned a couple).

A good video for those interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIbh0bw8qI

One is video is a Gen 1. The Gen 2 versions come with a durable M-Lok rail and AR-style buffer tube on a folder.

quote:

Originally posted by dwd1985:
I wonder how many people who voted for the SCAR actually own one. I say that because I am not impressed with it, mostly due to its "clunkiness". Its lightweight, sure, but it has a reputation for destroying optics and is just "big" overall, from the Ugg boot to the receiver and flash hider. That's why I am considering replacing it.

I actually own 2, well technically a SCAR 17 and a SCAR 20s. The SCAR 17 is simply the best general purpose .308 “tactical” gun out there. Is it perfect - no, but it’s the best compromise. Weight is everything she using a rifle for serious work. It makes it more maneuverable and usable in a variety of positions with much greater ease. It’s incredibly reliable and reasonably accurate. Whether an SR25 type rifle or a SCAR 20s is a better precision rifle is a good debate and I’d definitely give the SR25 the edge in accuracy. However for general uses I strongly feel that there’s nothing better than the SCAR 17 and I’ve shot just about all of them except for the B&T APC 308 (love my APC 223 and APC9 though).

I was shocked when I first took my SCAR17 to the range and found out how accurate it was.
It would be hard to beat the SCAR, I won't even try now.Its my go to in that caliber.

^^^
Yep.

(I voted SCAR)

First I'm a SCAR addict. I have many in a bunch of configurations. Its hands down the best of your list for a person that want's one gun in .308. Like the rest aren't even on the same page in terms of a total package. Yes I own the others so its actual experience. And yes at least for the FAL and the M1A you get a real live history lesson and guns that are exceptional for their history and providance but they are from another era. And a big point to me at this point in my life is I suppress almost everything. And its really the only one that works well for that of your list. I can fully understand someone getting an AR10 (not the silly piston SIG) because of its market position and its price point versus a SCAR. But that's not on your list. Since you say you have a SCAR what does it not do that you need, because I would really be at a loss to name a truly bad attribute. Sure some stuff needs changing like the trigger but its easy and the aftermarket has a zillion options.

I have a FAL. Awesome rifle. But an anachronism. Mine is irons only. I know you CAN put optics on them, but if you are looking for a modern practical rifle, I wouldn't choose a FAL.



My suggestion isn't on your poll. POF Rogue or Ruger SFAR.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
No, but I've searched and asked many times for proof from other platform owners and have come up empty. I even threw some challenges out to the guys over on sniper's hide.
https://www.snipershide.com/sh...23134/#post-11947078

Lots of claims, but I can never find proof. But maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

Tony.

Not sure what you’d consider proof but MAC got fairly consistent sub MOA or MOA groups with his SCAR 17. His 20S did a little worse, but all were under 1.5 MOA. His DD AR-10 shot all groups sub MOA.
Start at 13:06 here

https://youtu.be/dFfiwl4T7SI?si=FY9fPpppjEXPtFQN


Also note these are 3-shot groups, so take that for what it’s worth. I’m not sure what my M1A or SCAR will do because I suck at bench shooting and don’t enjoy it. But both are capable of hitting the 400 yard steel during run and gun matches so that’s good enough for me



Administrative Results says at 15:48 here that with his SCAR 17 he was getting 1 MOA groups easy with 168 grain AAC

https://youtu.be/bnIL1c9txQ0?si=qB-Y20t7b6MHScac

Here’s another, 9-hole reviews 9-shot group SCAR 17 at 100 yards measured .952” with Federal GMM

3:03 here

https://youtu.be/Xc6cdQUL0aQ?si=O5eAR9gnXGKCpIQD

Thanks for the video references! They pretty much confirm my previous statement about piston driven platforms. While some may match the accuracy of a well tuned M14, there isn't one that consistently beats it. The best you'll see out of any piston driven platform will be about 1 MOA +/- 0.5 MOA. It wasn't until changing to a DI platform that you see the jump down to 0.5 MOA +/- 0.25 MOA.

The cost of a match grade M14 is on par with the SCAR 20.

The M14 has the distinct advantage and disadvantage of having the ability to be tuned my a match builder. The advantage being that there are proven methods to optimize accuracy and the disadvantage of there being only few reputable builders in the country left that have the old-school craftsmanship skills to do so. I recognize that.

There's something to be said about having a platform that doesn't require a specialist to get good results. But as far as the SCAR platform knows, I don't know if there's a technical support cadre or knowledge database that has been proven or vetted to tune SCAR accuracy, and to what degree. I don't know because I'm not in those circles and I seldomly venture out of my lane.

So far the only piston driven platforms that seem to shoot on par with the match tuned M14 are the SCAR 17/20 and maybe the piston variant of the KAC M110 or SR25

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
And a big point to me at this point in my life is I suppress almost everything. And its really the only one that works well for that of your list. I can fully understand someone getting an AR10 (not the silly piston SIG) because of its market position and its price point versus a SCAR. But that's not on your list. Since you say you have a SCAR what does it not do that you need, because I would really be at a loss to name a truly bad attribute.

Suppressing a SCAR voids its warranty and also takes replacing gas jets, etc. Seems very counter-intuitive and also quite goofy to swap a bunch of factory parts off on a $3000 rifle, not to mention sinking more money into an already very expensive rifle.

I also dont understand calling the piston .308 AR concept "silly" LMT is currently making them and everyone and their mother seems to be in love with them. Sig did it over a decade ago, and I like the fact that they were doing it before it was cool. Plus its an AR platform. Easy to swap the vast majority of parts out of it plus mount an optic at a fraction of the price of a SCAR, AND it wont kill the optic.

It’s a $4,000 rifle now. If you’re already into one it would be crazy to switch. Otherwise build/buy an AR-10 that you want. I say as someone with 4 other semi-auto .308 rifles with parts kits for more, and no AR-10 or SCAR.

quote:

Sig did it over a decade ago, and I like the fact that they were doing it before it was cool.

Wasn't LWRC also doing it "before it was cool"? Is there a reason they're not in contention? Their REPR is supposed to be accurate.

I think the LMT that was adopted by the Brits for use as a DMR is actually a DI gun, though I could be wrong.

quote:

LMT is currently making them

Are they? I can only find DI 7.62x51 on their site.

You did concede it's for a "range toy". That doesn't mean there's not a purpose for it though. Do you want to have range fun in the SPR sense or the battle rifle sense? That'd help cater recommendations.

This is the thread in which we discussed piston semi-auto 7.62x51 rifles, in regards to accuracy potential...

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...300022905#4300022905

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:

quote:

Sig did it over a decade ago, and I like the fact that they were doing it before it was cool.

Wasn't LWRC also doing it "before it was cool"? Is there a reason they're not in contention? Their REPR is supposed to be accurate.

I think the LMT that was adopted by the Brits for use as a DMR is actually a DI gun, though I could be wrong.

quote:

LMT is currently making them

Are they? I can only find DI 7.62x51 on their site.

You did concede it's for a "range toy". That doesn't mean there's not a purpose for it though. Do you want to have range fun in the SPR sense or the battle rifle sense? That'd help cater recommendations.

This is the thread in which we discussed piston semi-auto 7.62x51 rifles, in regards to accuracy potential...

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...300022905#4300022905

There are certain companies I have no experience with. LWRC is one of them. POF is another. That's why neither of them was on my poll, I don't know anything about them.


You are correct that the Brits did adopt an LMT .308 DI gun, but thats not the one I am referring to. It was for a different military contract, though I don't recall whose. Here you go: https://www.titandefense.com/mlkmws16ps-mars.html

As for my purposes, when I say "range fun" I simply mean fun to handle, nice to look at, can hit a plate at 500 yards, will eat anything including cheap stuff. If I want to go for crazy accuracy I have a bolt action .308 I would play with.

DPMS LR308 / AR10 gets my vote.

quote:

Suppressing a SCAR voids its warranty and also takes replacing gas jets, etc.

The huge advantage of the SCAR for suppression IS the gas jets. Its not a negative its a huge positive. 2 minutes and $8 and all the gas issues that almost every other platfrom has shooting suppressed are solved. The FN warranty issue gets lots of press but I'm not sure its relevant. I'm pretty sure if I make modifications to any gun and that causes issues the mfg. has the right to say no. I get that and it doesn't bother me. Some of the recent interweb chats on this issue say FN is way more tolerant than perhaps they were. But again just about any product on the planet you modify it you own it mostly.

"I also dont understand calling the piston .308 AR concept "silly";

I didn't call the concept silly I called buying a sig 716 gen 1 silly. There is no company that is not bankrupt and out of business that is worse at supporting rifles they no longer make than Sig. You can get easily get parts for every single one of the other guns on your list except the sig. I have nothing against the technical concept. if you want one LWRC certainly seems a decent option.

My experience…. I have had an M1A since the early 90’s, have not shot it in years. I had a 716, ands liked it well enough. No issues or complaints really. Then I picked up a SCAR 17 about 5 years ago. Sold the 716 to my son in law. Everything the 716 did, the SCAR does better, and is lighter. In my opinion the M1A isn’t even relevant. I like it, but it’s just a safe queen now.

I have an early DSA/FAL STG58 and a Scar 17 and would pick the Scar all day and every day. I was stretching the Scar out to 500 yards and was ringing steel like it was child’s play. The STG58 is an awesome gun and I want an M1A but they’re more nostalgic than practical.

I really want a SCAR, but $4k is a lot for me to tie up in a gun I don't have a real specific use for. I went down that road building a suppressed SP5, but 9mm is a lot cheaper to shoot than 7.62.

My 716i scratches that battle rifle itch pretty nicely and has been reliable and accurate.

My M1A is a little picky about what it wants to shoot accurately, but it is a sexy looking thing. Every time I pick it up and think "I rarely shoot this. I should sell it," I immediately slap myself and put it back into the safe. And then I don't shoot it for another 6 months or so.

The FAL is a really neat historical firearm, but its day is past. I've wanted one for years and wouldn't pass on picking up one in good shape for a reasonable price, but it's not something I'd hunt for.

I love my 716i, but I wouldn't touch a piston 716 with a 10 foot pole at this point. SIG loves to drop support for discontinued models and there are a lot of propriety parts there. That obviously affects the impingement model as well, but it's still in production, has at least one military contract, and most importantly I already own it. Of my 308 semi autos, it would be the last one I'd part with.

I did manage to resist picking up a Daniel Defense in 308 the other day, but it was difficult. It's still there at the shop waiting for my will to weaken...