Oh, the upgrade kit that goes to the military is everything but the actual upper receiver as far as I know. They're just selling a completed repro version of what the military ends up with once they retrofit an upper.

In the end, I think if mine end up working out, I'll be painting them because it doesn't matter what the color is under IR, all anodized finishes glow like neon lights.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Am I correct in saying the URGI doesn't use this Super Duty cam pin and receiver?

It looks that way, yes.

Yeah it doesn’t really matter in the end, although a FDE base is nice. They are going to all be spray pained.

Got the notification today that mine has shipped.

ick

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Oh, the upgrade kit that goes to the military is everything but the actual upper receiver as far as I know. They're just selling a completed repro version of what the military ends up with once they retrofit an upper.

I do think the barrel on military version is a Daniel.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Oh, the upgrade kit that goes to the military is everything but the actual upper receiver as far as I know. They're just selling a completed repro version of what the military ends up with once they retrofit an upper.

I do think the barrel on military version is a Daniel.

Same for the near clone uppers until Geissele switched to an in house barrel

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do think the barrel on military version is a Daniel.

So, the latest "mil-spec" barrel calls for hammer forged CMV steel?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I do think the barrel on military version is a Daniel.

So, the latest "mil-spec" barrel calls for hammer forged CMV steel?

It was part of the Block 2 upgrade, I believe. A heavier “SOCOM” profile barrel that allowed the weapons system to be used (in a pinch) in a LMG role. The SOCOM profile allowed higher temps without barrel burst.

I am a bit confused as to why the URGI is $200 more than the Super Duty Mod1 complete upper. The differences, if I am understanding correctly, are the flash hider, the upper and HG having a tabbed interface, and the BCG having the asymmetrical cam pin, with the upper supposedly accommodating it internally. The flash hider is a wash, price-wise, as both SF and Hux are similarly high-dollar. The other differences wouldn't have any impact on price either, that I can tell. You're bound to the Geissele "ecosystem" a bit, with the Super Duty having a tabbed interface, but that's something seen in other "high-end" manufacturers' designs too. If you're throwing down on a boutique URG, then you're presumably enamored with whatever they're doing, so that shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps the Super Duty is cheaper simply because they've had a hard time moving them?

Some fun buzz phrases in Geissele's descriptions:

URGI: "delivers measurable increases in hit probability"

ERBCG (in both uppers, with URGI lacking modified cam pin): "dramatically increasing feeding reliability"; "capable of 5 times the life of a mil-spec bolt"

5X the lifespan of a mil-spec?! We'd be idiots for not having these bolts in our guns, and stocked as spares. I guess they had two otherwise identical guns, and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, and shot them until they both broke their bolts, and made note of the rounds expended in each weapon before failure.

*I was initially shocked by a perceived $500 difference in price. Turns-out they have reduced the price on the SD uppers; They seem like a phenomenal buy, at less than $900. My query still stands though, concerning the differences.

Why does a Turkey and cheese sandwich cost $11 more in an airport than at a gas station?

Because you're trapped in the airport, and they know you have no choice.

All the prices I referenced are on Geissele's website.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Because you're trapped in the airport, and they know you have no choice.

All the prices I referenced are on Geissele's website.

You always have a choice. That choice is not eating.

Somebody, somewhere determined that $11 is the price hike that most people that want the product will pay. It’s what they value the product at. If people would pay, $12 or $20 more, that’s what the price would be.

Yes, higher end DI ARs are more expensive for a number of reasons. But, despite having to recoup T&E, and higher manufacturing costs related to higher quality standards, there is a certain amount of what the market will bear that goes on. And God bless them for it. The AR is my favorite rifle and places like KAC and Geissele are pushing the limits and created a refined Gentleman's rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Because you're trapped in the airport, and they know you have no choice.

All the prices I referenced are on Geissele's website.

You always have a choice. That choice is not eating.

Somebody, somewhere determined that $11 is the price hike that most people that want the product will pay. It’s what they value the product at. If people would pay, $12 or $20 more, that’s what the price would be.

Yes, higher end DI ARs are more expensive for a number of reasons. But, despite having to recoup T&E, and higher manufacturing costs related to higher quality standards, there is a certain amount of what the market will bear that goes on. And God bless them for it. The AR is my favorite rifle and places like KAC and Geissele are pushing the limits and created a refined Gentleman's rifle.

Geissele is basic mil spec, mid tier parts at top tier pricing, and run by a con man. Look up all of the data on ole Bendy Bill Geissele's rails, as well as their ridiculous pricing like when they tried to sell $30 aluminum AR mags, then gave a fake apology when they got called out on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/...ts_over_priced_mags/

Guys, let’s please not have that in this thread. You can start another one for it.

The Bendgate thing was badly handled, and he officially never acknowledged it and then they changed the rails to 7000 series aluminum and altered the geometry. So, at least I have the updated rails.

My intent wasn't to start some kind of weird dialogue. I was merely curious as to the differences within the Geissele line, between the SD and the URGI. It seems, to me, that the SD is potentially offering more refinements at a lower price point, provided the barrel specs are the same.

I wasn't saying that "a PSA can do all that a Geissele can do, at 1/3 the cost". I agree that a Geissele represents a nice AR, and I appreciate nice ARs. I was merely scrutinizing the differences between those two models of theirs.

I do care a bit about company ethics, and company leadership personalities. But, like Smudge said, that's not what we're talking about in this thread of his.

My intent was weird dialogue.

Cloners (or near cloners) pay more than what an item is worth and the market drives that price. There is no other logical reason based upon spec sheets. Which is why I waiting for a “deal”.

The reason I went with the URGI is because I already have an older SD rifle and curious (like you) to the differences. I don’t like watching YouTube and drawing opinions. I enjoy gathering data myself. It may be a lesser performer than the Super Duty. It may be the same. Who knows.

For what it's worth, I came at this one from a weird direction. Good friend of mine does a lot of business buying up bulk inventory and flipping it, either parting it out or building it up, whichever the case may be. He came into a batch of police trade Mk18 uppers that had been rebarreled with 11.5" DD barrels and had other DD parts like front sights and whatnot. The uppers were well-used, but the barrels looked just about unused. He parted those out and then got to looking into the barrels. Come to find out, that's the 11.5" URGI barrel. I tell him I want one just for giggles when he offers me a price about half what they go for new. Then two days later, he sends me a link to Geissele running the Mk16 blem rails for half of what those go for new. It seemed a natural choice, so I snag one. Then it made sense to just go ahead and get the charging handle since I stumbled into a clone upper for cheap. Then it made sense to go ahead and do it again with a barrel I already had that would make an excellent 14.5" near-clone and end up with a pair of them, so I did.

At this point, I'm into two near-clone uppers for less than Jones paid for his, and it's all Colt, FN, DD, and Geissele stuff. For me, all the stars aligned on this one and I did very, very well for myself. It was more on a whim than any other motivation.

That’s a friend I’m here to tell you.

He is indeed.



Now to swap back to hinged trigger guards and figure out optics. Thinking an Eotech on a riser for the 11.5” with no irons, and some sort of LPVO on the 16” with a Knights/MaTech combo he’s setting me up with. Everything from the upper to the buffer tube to the stock on the 11.5” are older Colt parts. Definitely a vibe, as the kids say.